The Release w/Brian Manzella & Michael Jacobs
- Thread starter dschultz6072
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James Marshall (Hogan1953)
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Does that mean then that 75% of the work that the body makes no contribution to the kinematic sequence?
dschultz6072
New
Picture an athletic guy. Ask him to swing a bat fairly slowly. Then ask him to swing it faster. Then ask him to swing it as fast as he can. Is he thinking how use his body to swing it faster or is he just thinking "swing this dumb guy hard!" ?
I think there's a missing element to the golf swing instruction that a lot of people don't understand. If you aren't athletically inclined, you're going to have the learn the athleticism required to swing the club fast. Conversely, if you already are, you're just learning how to hit the ball hard where you want it to go.
That's just my 2 cents on the matter.
dschultz6072
New
To elaborate...here's a guy who is string bean but knows how to athletically get that ball rocketing off his hand.
Does that mean everyone who is built like him could potentially throw it in the upper 90s and carry a baseball team through the World Series if they practiced enough?
Does that mean everyone who is built like him could potentially throw it in the upper 90s and carry a baseball team through the World Series if they practiced enough?
Maybe the difference is a higher end player will get this and be able to apply it sooner than a not so high end player. Difference in ability at a given time in developement might be a factor.
birly-shirly
New
dbl - I agree. I'm sure that there are mechanical factors that mean that amateurs don't generate clubhead speed as efficiently as pros.
But I don't think that the fact that 75% of the pivot's power goes into moving the body rather than the club proves it.
75% non-productive work is still a straight-line relationship to clubhead speed, whereas I think you need to find some law of diminishing returns before you discard the idea of the pivot as a source of additional clubhead speed.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Then just keep pivoting
The body pivot still plays a role in the production of club head speed. That should not be discarded. It's just less than what would normally be thought. My suggestion is to focus the body motion/pivot into supporting those body parts that are doing most of the work to move the club head faster. This of course has to be done on an individual as needed basis.
Jwat
New
Kevin,
For those of us who have a hard time getting behind the ball, how can we differintate that from pivoting? I feel like I use way too much body motion trying to get behind the ball, but when I do I hit the ball very solid and consistant. So I would like to limit my body movement as much as I can and incorporate more of my God given talent of fast hands and great hand/eye coordination.
For those of us who have a hard time getting behind the ball, how can we differintate that from pivoting? I feel like I use way too much body motion trying to get behind the ball, but when I do I hit the ball very solid and consistant. So I would like to limit my body movement as much as I can and incorporate more of my God given talent of fast hands and great hand/eye coordination.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
This is about limiting your pivot THROUGH the ball, not in the backswing
Not Kevin, but could be the way your thinking about it, your already behind the ball you don't need to get behind it. Maybe another way of thinking would help you see the B.S. pivot in a different way using it more effeciently with less body motion. JMO.
We've talked about moving the hands away from the target at the top of the swing, this seems vague to me. Away from the target where? Is this supposed to be universal or a theoretical model that reaches a perfectly square top position which then reverses parallel to the target line?
I bring this up because I get into different positions up top depending on the club itself, the backswing plane, and the amount of pivot. For extreme example, a flat draw driver swing (where I often go across the line) and steep 3/4 cut wedge (where I never even reach parallel).
Personally I'm having success by sending the club right back where it came from. When my wrists set up top, I bounce the club right back in the other direction wherever that may be and start closing the gap. Is this what we are talking about here (in a real application) or am I still missing something?
I bring this up because I get into different positions up top depending on the club itself, the backswing plane, and the amount of pivot. For extreme example, a flat draw driver swing (where I often go across the line) and steep 3/4 cut wedge (where I never even reach parallel).
Personally I'm having success by sending the club right back where it came from. When my wrists set up top, I bounce the club right back in the other direction wherever that may be and start closing the gap. Is this what we are talking about here (in a real application) or am I still missing something?
Jwat
New
Ahhh, makes total sense now. Lately, I have been really unintentionally popping my left hip towards the target and creating too much axis tilt, whats new! I am going to keep all that quiter and work on just closing the gap.
So I guess I am back to the same old problem on the BS which is not getting behind the ball. One of these days.....
Jwat
New
I would paypal someone $1000 bucks if they could give me some sort of something to consistently get behind the ball with less body motion and be able to bring it to the course each day. When my BS is right, there is no comparison on my ball striking. I would be a plus handicapper instantly.
Yes, when what is thought to be the time when the pivot is doing most of the work.
I'm thinking it is right after the transition (the weight shift left) to just past impact. So, about when in the downswing should the pivot be limited/stabilizing?
Thank you for the clarification
For practical purposes, I just don't have a clear picture in my mind what "don't pivot like crazy" and "rather than the club responding to the body, the body responds to the club" actually mean yet.
Try this, throw a straight right hand punch while keeping your feet planted and hips stable--not pivoting like crazy.
Next, throw a straight right hand punch but, this time spin your hips hard to the left and keep them going left at the same time your hand is going forward--pivoting like crazy.
duckjr78
New
I need help with the pivot. I pivot like crazy. The "away from target" move with the butt of the club at the beginning of the backswing has helped, but I still have a right hip/leg that fire hard to start the downswing. My right heel is off the ground way early in the downswing. By the time the clubhead gets to impact, you can see the entire bottom of my right shoe. My hip gets in the way of my handpath, and the club swings to the right.
How can I calm this down?
How can I calm this down?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
YES YES YES YES YES & Yes!
Obviously, you need to move your body effectively to hit the ball tour-like.
But, do this release the wrong way, and you have to WORK LIKR MAD to hit the ball well.
We are not talking about hackers.
They may have a poor motion altogether.
Not sure. Great question, I'll ask the experts.
That 2 cents is worth a LOT MORE than that.
Oh, if you don't like this stuff don't do it.
Do not agree.
Most folks who are "handle draggers" need to do as little as possible with the body.
If you don't turn enough away from the ball, you have NO CHANCE of not tugging.
I'd say TO and THROUGH.
You are missing the point.
PLENTY of folks do not TRY to do what you are saying you do.
Learn to get the club head to the ball properly.
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