Michael Jacobs
Super Moderator
Enjoy the show
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The Release w/Brian Manzella & Michael Jacobs
- Thread starter dschultz6072
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duckjr78
New
So I need to get the left hip back away from the ball before I fire the right hip towards the ball?
PS. Great stuff Mike!
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/29017218?title=0&byline=0&portrait=0" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen allowFullScreen></iframe>
dschultz6072
New
nice eccos, freddie.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Just a little graphic for some clarity:
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Clubfitting is huge.
azcrlyglfpro
New
CRP Travel
I would love to hear some elaboration on CP travel and its contribution to the Yips.. thoughts gentlemen?
I would love to hear some elaboration on CP travel and its contribution to the Yips.. thoughts gentlemen?
GeoffDickson
New
Thanks for the video Mike. Is this a correct summary of the bend and lag/lead:
1. At top of backswing, the club is bent toe up with negligible lead deflection and no lag.
2. During the downswing, when the club is pointed towards 10 or 11 o'clock, the club is now straight.
3. As the club accelerates in the bottom half of the downswing, the club gains lag deflection for the first time.
4. Towards impact, the club straightens and continues thru to a lead deflection position AND is toe down.
1. At top of backswing, the club is bent toe up with negligible lead deflection and no lag.
2. During the downswing, when the club is pointed towards 10 or 11 o'clock, the club is now straight.
3. As the club accelerates in the bottom half of the downswing, the club gains lag deflection for the first time.
4. Towards impact, the club straightens and continues thru to a lead deflection position AND is toe down.
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welshdentist
New
Confessions of a Former Yipper
I'm not a pro, or Manzella staff. Just a golfer who know what the yips are.
If yips for a particular golfer are due to CRP point travelling down, my take would be this. Please correct me Manzella guys if I'm wrong. This will be long and a bit emotional.
My take, being a poster child CRP DOWN, on it would be as follows....
At some point, be it through injury or trying to hit down on the ball, the golfer begins chipping or pitching by swinging their hands down towards the ball/ground instead of the club
This means the CRP point keeps going down from the right thigh location. If the golfer pivots normally, and releases normally, they will have no choice but to hit the big ball first (the ground). This as an occasional occurrence is no problem, we all hit it fat sometimes but the golfer isn't sure why
How the golfer reacts to this repeatedly happening is whether it becomes this yips or not.
If they golfer "fixes" it by doing whatever it takes to get the CRP moving level or slightly up through the ball then they think nothing of it and go back to playing golf.
If the golfer thinks they are hitting it fat or thin due to flipping/not having a flat left wrist/too much lag/not enough weight left/not enough lean they will continue to hit it fat. If the move the ball back in the stance/move the hands forward/try to get wrist flatter/weight further forward etc etc etc IT CAN GET WORSE, MUCH WORSE.
If you continue to hit it fat, have it occur in pressure situations/in front of peers you become scared of it happening as it makes you angry or embarrassed. You now have the bodies fight or flight reaction kick in and you start to feel stress/anxiety. You will now start to do funky things to try NOT TO YIP. These would be panic flippping at impact to try not to hit it fat, jumping up at impact, twisting and all the things we see when someone yips. It can get so bad the golfer may start freezing over the ball.
This now gets self autobiographical.
The golfer may then look around teaching pros, internet forums, training aids, hypnosis, sport psychologists searching for the answer
I tried hypnosis, it gets rid of the fear short term but unless you fix the cause it is like being cured of a fear of snakes but then being bitten by one straight after and getting scared again. It is not irrational to be scared of hitting it fat when you have next to no option otherwise. The brain isn't stupid and know a few feet from impact what the likely outcome will be.
HYPNOSIS DOES NOT CURE THE YIPS, just reduces the ensuing panic....
You can go on internet forums and try to seek a tip or method. If it's to try to get your wrist flatter and hands down out and forward
IT WILL GET WORSE
If you have lessons and they try to fix you by getting the ball back in the stance/weight forward/more shaft lean or any combo of those three
IT WILL GET WORSE
Even if you try to fix it by releasing your wrists through the ball a la Tour pitch it will not help if your CRP keeps going down.
How do I know all this?
I've done it all......
I've bounced a 7 iron off the ground over the ball for a chip and run on the way to shooting 74, I've fatted wedges 4 inches behind the ball. I've nearly killed people with thinned short pitches. I've gone up to a handicap of 6 hitting 70% of fairways and 66%+ GIR
I've nearly quit many times, been angry, frustrated, emotional but I've never stopped believing someone would explain why I did what I did, until NOW.
This is massive people, massive. I haven't had any instruction of the guys here yet but just with my take on what I think it means I've improved massively and not in a works one day only way.
You can try any training aid you like but there is one that I think can be of help, but not the way it was designed. But I wouldn't want to say until I check with the guys that know about this stuff.
I will repost this below, as this has been Confessions of a Former Yipper
This is what I was doing before this thread, If I kept my left wrist flat and right wrist bent I hit massive divots and fatted it horrifically. For ME, the more I tried to go TGM perfect the worse I got.
I had lessons getting the ball further and further back to not hit it fat. I ended up hitting a 60' wedge about 4ft high on a short pitch
Hypnosis got me to the point that I laughed when I hit it fat or panic thinned it. Not so much a cure as an asprin for a headache when you are repeatedly hitting your own head with a hammer.
Looking forward to buying the book/videos/getting a lesson on this stuff.
I'm not a pro, or Manzella staff. Just a golfer who know what the yips are.
If yips for a particular golfer are due to CRP point travelling down, my take would be this. Please correct me Manzella guys if I'm wrong. This will be long and a bit emotional.
My take, being a poster child CRP DOWN, on it would be as follows....
At some point, be it through injury or trying to hit down on the ball, the golfer begins chipping or pitching by swinging their hands down towards the ball/ground instead of the club
This means the CRP point keeps going down from the right thigh location. If the golfer pivots normally, and releases normally, they will have no choice but to hit the big ball first (the ground). This as an occasional occurrence is no problem, we all hit it fat sometimes but the golfer isn't sure why
How the golfer reacts to this repeatedly happening is whether it becomes this yips or not.
If they golfer "fixes" it by doing whatever it takes to get the CRP moving level or slightly up through the ball then they think nothing of it and go back to playing golf.
If the golfer thinks they are hitting it fat or thin due to flipping/not having a flat left wrist/too much lag/not enough weight left/not enough lean they will continue to hit it fat. If the move the ball back in the stance/move the hands forward/try to get wrist flatter/weight further forward etc etc etc IT CAN GET WORSE, MUCH WORSE.
If you continue to hit it fat, have it occur in pressure situations/in front of peers you become scared of it happening as it makes you angry or embarrassed. You now have the bodies fight or flight reaction kick in and you start to feel stress/anxiety. You will now start to do funky things to try NOT TO YIP. These would be panic flippping at impact to try not to hit it fat, jumping up at impact, twisting and all the things we see when someone yips. It can get so bad the golfer may start freezing over the ball.
This now gets self autobiographical.
The golfer may then look around teaching pros, internet forums, training aids, hypnosis, sport psychologists searching for the answer
I tried hypnosis, it gets rid of the fear short term but unless you fix the cause it is like being cured of a fear of snakes but then being bitten by one straight after and getting scared again. It is not irrational to be scared of hitting it fat when you have next to no option otherwise. The brain isn't stupid and know a few feet from impact what the likely outcome will be.
HYPNOSIS DOES NOT CURE THE YIPS, just reduces the ensuing panic....
You can go on internet forums and try to seek a tip or method. If it's to try to get your wrist flatter and hands down out and forward
IT WILL GET WORSE
If you have lessons and they try to fix you by getting the ball back in the stance/weight forward/more shaft lean or any combo of those three
IT WILL GET WORSE
Even if you try to fix it by releasing your wrists through the ball a la Tour pitch it will not help if your CRP keeps going down.
How do I know all this?
I've done it all......
I've bounced a 7 iron off the ground over the ball for a chip and run on the way to shooting 74, I've fatted wedges 4 inches behind the ball. I've nearly killed people with thinned short pitches. I've gone up to a handicap of 6 hitting 70% of fairways and 66%+ GIR
I've nearly quit many times, been angry, frustrated, emotional but I've never stopped believing someone would explain why I did what I did, until NOW.
This is massive people, massive. I haven't had any instruction of the guys here yet but just with my take on what I think it means I've improved massively and not in a works one day only way.
You can try any training aid you like but there is one that I think can be of help, but not the way it was designed. But I wouldn't want to say until I check with the guys that know about this stuff.
I will repost this below, as this has been Confessions of a Former Yipper
This is what I was doing before this thread, If I kept my left wrist flat and right wrist bent I hit massive divots and fatted it horrifically. For ME, the more I tried to go TGM perfect the worse I got.
I had lessons getting the ball further and further back to not hit it fat. I ended up hitting a 60' wedge about 4ft high on a short pitch
Hypnosis got me to the point that I laughed when I hit it fat or panic thinned it. Not so much a cure as an asprin for a headache when you are repeatedly hitting your own head with a hammer.
Looking forward to buying the book/videos/getting a lesson on this stuff.
GeoffDickson
New
If shaft flex affects only clubhead/face orientation and not club head speed, does this mean that a poorly fitted shaft will not cost you distance (as long as you swing in such a way as to ensure that clubhead direction/path etc are at their optimum)?
Frans@France
New
ooooooo
I did enjoy it like the two previous ones.
It should be noted that the values that you present here for the deflections with this 118mh tour player are NOT to be taken as a general rule for every golfer from a club fitting point of view.
There is no doubt that the clubshaft goes into toe up lead in the change of directions, recovers, goes into lag, and then into toe down lead at impact.
The given values shows only that this golfer is sensible to the deflection of the shaft and that he is capable of adjusting his swing such that the deflection does not go too extreme, IMHO.
Very likely he is (unconsciously) picking up the shaft behaviour on the back swing and makes adjustments before getting into the transition. This kind of golfer is the one that can play golf with whatever material you will hand him and they will from the moment they start playing golf become good fast. The most extreme examples of these kind of golfers can be found on the tour
Unfortunately the largest group of golfers do not have this level of sensibility and they will show completely different figures when doing this same test, again in my opinion and experience.
I did enjoy it like the two previous ones.
It should be noted that the values that you present here for the deflections with this 118mh tour player are NOT to be taken as a general rule for every golfer from a club fitting point of view.
There is no doubt that the clubshaft goes into toe up lead in the change of directions, recovers, goes into lag, and then into toe down lead at impact.
The given values shows only that this golfer is sensible to the deflection of the shaft and that he is capable of adjusting his swing such that the deflection does not go too extreme, IMHO.
Very likely he is (unconsciously) picking up the shaft behaviour on the back swing and makes adjustments before getting into the transition. This kind of golfer is the one that can play golf with whatever material you will hand him and they will from the moment they start playing golf become good fast. The most extreme examples of these kind of golfers can be found on the tour
Unfortunately the largest group of golfers do not have this level of sensibility and they will show completely different figures when doing this same test, again in my opinion and experience.
birly-shirly
New
Fair point Frans - but the point that I took Michael to be making was that here was real data showing a clubhead being swung at 118mph without a ton of lag pressure being maintained from the transition into impact.
Which may or may not be a big deal - depending on which books you read when you were growing up
Which may or may not be a big deal - depending on which books you read when you were growing up
welshdentist
New
Yeah, coupling point, have it in my head as coupling rotation point.
Michael Jacobs
Super Moderator
I understand your point from a clubfitting perspective, but this was not the reason I included the numbers in my video. It was to show the relatively small amount of bending occurring in a ladies shaft with a tour speed swing.
The model that was used for the numbers is optimized it allows different parameters to be plugged in and it enables research and calculations to be made by plugging in different parameters such as a Ladies shaft, regular shaft, stiff shaft and is completely absent of subjectivity !!
Obviously, in clubfitting, there is an extreme subject dependent variance.
Welshdentist.... I understand and identify with your problem... I have for the last 2 years avoided less than full wedge or pitch shots from fairway grass.... going so far as to aim into the rough... I do believe for me at least the fat wedge was a result very poor mechanics... from pulling the handle to forcing my hand path down... I enjoyed your post ..
thanks
thanks
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Still just a little late but pretty darn different
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