The Release w/Brian Manzella & Michael Jacobs

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footwedge

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Footwedge...is that the same as saying that:

1) the pivot controls the hand/cp path?
2) golfers with small/minimal pivot will likely have their hands moving across/out rather than up and in?


It's just the way I think of it. Could be different for someone else. My brain just say's why would I pivot if my handpath is going out away from me I don't want to have to fight to bring it back and waste all my energy throwing something away( MY HANDS IN THIS CASE) from me to try and get it back. And I'm not talking about the transition move at the top. JMO.
 
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footwedge

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@ Geoff , why do people with throwaway end up with bent arms and wrists and all chicken winged up, they have to bring back what they threw away somehow to hit the ball. If you weren't trying to hit a ball on the other side of you and just threw it away you would have extension. Small edit: or fishing..lol.
 
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footwedge

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I think this is where a lot of people are misunderstanding Brian and M.J. I don't believe their telling people to throw it away like some hacker and flip it like another hacker, I've read some of these ridiculous posts elsewhere about oh! your going to cast it away and bend your arms like a dog's hind leg and flip it like a guy on a grill doing burgers at Mikey D'S. But I could be wrong....not!
 

Brian Manzella

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footwedge

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If you release the left arm, the clubhead, and the shaft properly, you WILL PIVOT LESS than if you drag them all.

I don't know if that was aimed at me but if it was I wasn't implying to drag it through. I was talking about going out with the hands and then you have to drag it through or flip it.
 
His CP didn't go up by the looks of things. Isn't that a contradiction of your theory? I'm assuming the red dots are like that because that's how you wanted them (ie how they are), right?
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
His CP didn't go up by the looks of things. Isn't that a contradiction of your theory? I'm assuming the red dots are like that because that's how you wanted them (ie how they are), right?

I used to think you had a clue.....

You have convinced me you are "in"....

But man, are you wrong this time......

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May I?

If you draw a line across this junior's shoulder joints, thus 3 lines, one for each pic, you will see an interesting correlation. Assuming the line in the first pic is horizontal or close to horizontal, the subsequent 2 pics have lines that trace upward toward his left side.

Since his 2 arms (and hands) and his chest form a triangle, the hand movement and the shoulder tilt may correlate to a large extent. These two observations--shoulder line and hand dot-- are therefore inevitable, co-dependent physiological findings. In other words, if you see the hand position, you can guess how the shoulder should look; and vice versa (if the shoulder is tilting up, the hands should also go up). To determine whether the hands are heading up or down, especially when the pic quality is not extremely clear, a shoulder line may help to assess and confirm.

On the other hand, if the two factors on a pic do not seem to correlate, that is, shoulder tilting up but hands heading down, as if that is possible which i am not sure, then one may need to question if the golfer is indeed a hacker, haha!
 
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Did anyone happen to hear Johnny Miller on Sunday and his explanation of how the left shoulder should move coming into impact? It needs to be level with or lower than the right shoulder...if it moves up, that's why players hit shots to the right.

As always, good stuff, Johnny.
 
Did anyone happen to hear Johnny Miller on Sunday and his explanation of how the left shoulder should move coming into impact? It needs to be level with or lower than the right shoulder...if it moves up, that's why players hit shots to the right.

As always, good stuff, Johnny.

Forgive me for my ignorance in terms which poster holds which belief on this forum and that when you make that statement you were being facetious or serious.

here is video of miller: at 5:00 to 5:30, he demonstrates impact and it is pretty clear to me his shoulder line direction. that is not to say, of course, that to block to the right side, a severely lowered right shoulder cannot make that happen, if other conditions are also met at the same time.

Johnny Miller Golf Swing Fundamentals - YouTube
 
If you release the left arm, the clubhead, and the shaft properly, you WILL PIVOT LESS than if you drag them all.
Yes....Dave Williams, Joe Norwood, Mike Austin, Jim Flick....etc. Credit where credit is due.
Most folks who are "handle draggers" need to do as little as possible with the body.

I've read one of Jim Flick's books but never really bought into it. After reading Brian's comments above, I took another look at the Flick book sitting on my bookshelf. Flick wrote:

"You don't want to drag or jerk the butt end of the club through impact. You want to allow the clubhead to release so it can do its job. And that's why you have to . . . feel the club head."

"[T]oo many people . . . are being taught to use their legs and hips before they're taught to use their hands and arms to square the golf club."

As someone who hits a lot of blocks for bad shots, this makes more sense now.
 
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lia41985

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Did anyone happen to hear Johnny Miller on Sunday and his explanation of how the left shoulder should move coming into impact? It needs to be level with or lower than the right shoulder...if it moves up, that's why players hit shots to the right.

As always, good stuff, Johnny.
He's said the opposite before (strange...):
 
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lia41985

New member
Overhead camera shot would be awesome to see the inward. If you left his hands there but turned his left hip back to address I bet the hip would block his handpath. I'm thinking more and more handpath is critical, I think the hip and shoulder's respond to the hand/cp path.
 
I used to think you had a clue.....

You have convinced me you are "in"....

But man, are you wrong this time......


Maybe you misunderstood my questionS, which were independent of each other (it seemed like I asked one question, because I didn't formulate them very well).

In your original picture you were not trying to show the upward movement of the CP, that is clear. The picture showed the CP as stationary, fact. Because it had ALREADY moved up into its impact position. I was just pointing out that if you're going to show (in a still picture) MOVEMENT of the club in terms of rotation, you have to relate it to any movement (however small) of the at this point in time slow moving CP. Otherwise some DF is going to come along and claim that it didn't move up. Clearly you have done this with the additional pictures. I didn't doubt for a minute that it had moved up.

My other question related to the two red dots on the kid's wrists, which obviously relate to the bending (left) and straightening (right) of the wrists and the apparent asymmetry of this process. The question was: it was asymmetrically drawn, cos it IS asymmetrish, right?
 
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