The Release w/Brian Manzella & Michael Jacobs

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counterfall

counterfall

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Brian Manzella said:
supernormal.jpg
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He seemingly has a very large difference in the rotation of his lower body compared to his shoulders ("x-factor")- aggressive looking pivot. His shoulders are also very level horizontally along with very little axis tilt. Does any of this have any correlation to your data? Or is it just how HE does it?
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
counterfall said:
He seemingly has a very large difference in the rotation of his lower body compared to his shoulders ("x-factor")- aggressive looking pivot. His shoulders are also very level horizontally along with very little axis tilt. Does any of this have any correlation to your data? Or is it just how HE does it?
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Um, his right shoulder is significantly lower than his left in the above still frame. He is also tilted away from the target a fair amount, not hanging back or anything but there is tilt. Also we don't know what iron he was hitting, secondary spine tilt varies based on club. Less for short irons and more for long irons (in general)
 
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spktho

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wulsy said:
His CP didn't go up by the looks of things. Isn't that a contradiction of your theory? I'm assuming the red dots are like that because that's how you wanted them (ie how they are), right?
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The "red" dots in the original picture is the kids watch band or something around his right wrist.
 
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ms1170

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I am thankful for all the information Brian and Michael have shared with us, but I'm wondering why we are using blurred pictures to prove our points? I know we have better pictures. I bought a Casio because of this forum.
 
mgranato

mgranato

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Were these juniors shown how to do this, or is this what swing innocence looks like before they are later taught how to drag a handle?
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
The picture I put up is a young golfer I am starting to help through his dad, but have not even commented on yet.

The girl is Mike Jacobs' student.


And BTW, the blur shows the club a'int hitting no box.
 
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dbl

New
mgranato said:
Were these juniors shown how to do this, or is this what swing innocence looks like before they are later taught how to drag a handle?
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Bingo! (to the latter) I'd say. Bobby Jones the man swung like Bobby Jones the 4 year old, didn't he?
 
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Robbohank

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I had the good fortune to spend a few hours with Brian yesterday. I considered myself a bit of a handle-dragger who's been studying this information intently over the last few weeks and working on eliminating it. I actually thought I'd gotten pretty close before arriving in NO but it took about 15 minutes with Brian to realize that wasn't the case. I was dragging it with the best of them and learning how NOT to do it was not nearly as easy a task as I thought it would be!

But....... Brian worked his butt off with me to resolve it. We got as much done as we could in 3+ hours of work and now it's up to me to finish the job. One day later it's better and I'm confident it will continue to improve. As Brian alluded to and I now agree with - how you get it done without Trackman is hard to comprehend. For all the cats here trying to wade thru it and figure it out on your own..... good luck. A few will but many/most won't. Not trying to make dire predictions here but I'm a believer that you gotta make an effort for anything worthwhile. If that means making a trip that's not just an hour's drive away then you need to do it. If you're not willing to then you probably don't really want it. Nothing wrong with that, we all have different goals/priorities.

Much gratitude to Brian.
 
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puttmaster

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So after a two-year layoff from daily review of this forum (work - relocation, priorities got out of whack), I return to find this thread. Words cannot describe the liberation that I feel from the #%*! handle-dragging theory that took my hdcp from 5 to 12. I thought I was just getting older and losing it. Now, it is GREAT to know that I'm once again free to release the club in, what seems to me, a logical and fearless manner - rather than fighting all natural feel by dragging and hangin on. After absorbing 100+ pages, I have had two range sessions and 18 holes of golf this week that produced more smiles and joy than I can remember. Thanks Brian, Michael, Kevin, et al !
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
puttmaster said:
So after a two-year layoff from daily review of this forum (work - relocation, priorities got out of whack), I return to find this thread. Words cannot describe the liberation that I feel from the #%*! handle-dragging theory that took my hdcp from 5 to 12. I thought I was just getting older and losing it. Now, it is GREAT to know that I'm once again free to release the club in, what seems to me, a logical and fearless manner - rather than fighting all natural feel by dragging and hangin on. After absorbing 100+ pages, I have had two range sessions and 18 holes of golf this week that produced more smiles and joy than I can remember. Thanks Brian, Michael, Kevin, et al !
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Although I was always sceptic in case of TGM recommendations and always preferred to listen to old champs a'la Cotton than to follow anti-natural motions and all these handle dragging, swinging/hitting bullshit - I can feel your pain.
When reading your post I wonder why instruction sucked so much and instead analyzing old champs they chose to be blind and enjoy silly grades in an ineffective system that stopped to be ammended almost 30 years ago. Beats me.
Glad this is over and people may enjoy golf much more.

Cheers
 
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Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
dschultz6072 said:
Haha. It's far from over. Maybe here. But anyone outside of this circle? Yea, right.
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Actually, not only here. I remember from my OnePlane times that noone wanted to drag the handle or forbid slap-hinge release as well as noone mentioned about TGM and their pseudoscientific and anti-natural revelations. This is just one example. Besides, as I see, this Forum influence on golf instruction is important. No doubt, important. I saw not only once how people disputed about what happened here on various fora.

Cheers
 
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softconsult

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"how you get it done without Trackman is hard to comprehend." I would love to hear more detail about the trackman readings and they changed as Brian worked you through the changes. You may not remember the particulars, but if you can share more it might be beneficial.
 
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Tophdad

New
Robo - could you share more about what was hard about stopping dragging the handle? What trackman measurements indicated you were still dragging the handle? Are the swing changes you are making dramatic? Thanks!
 
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Mike O

New
History

A) This thread has it's greatest relevance for those that came through the "Ben Doyle Bloodline"
B) It has particular relevance to certain Golfing Machine applications, mis-interpretations, etc.
C) It has the potential to help others learn and grow in their effort to teach and/or play
 
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Robbohank

New
softconsult said:
"how you get it done without Trackman is hard to comprehend." I would love to hear more detail about the trackman readings and they changed as Brian worked you through the changes. You may not remember the particulars, but if you can share more it might be beneficial.
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SC,

Essentially it came down to AOA for me. Tour average with a 7-iron is somewhere in the 4's and I started out in the 7's - and I thought I was hitting pretty good before I got there! After an hour or so of BM's work I was getting it into the 4's semi-regularly.... and then he brought out the 5-iron which the tour average is in the high 3's for AOA (I think). It took another 45 minutes to get me into that range. Then the hybrid - he just kept making it tougher and tougher. How you get that information w/out TM is beyond me. That was sort of my point.

My problem? Not enough back extension into impact and too much "tugging". The feeling I had when my AOA numbers were good was so dramatically different than my "usual" feelings. I'm a scratch and the feeling was soooo different that what I've been feeling over the last few years. Incredibly free-wheeling for the lack of a better description. Yet as much as I liked that feeling, reproducing it was incredibly difficult. Differentiating between a 6 degree aoa and a 4 degree aoa without TM is likely impossible.
 
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