The Release w/Brian Manzella & Michael Jacobs

[Robbohank]

Thanks...For me this suggests the following swing thought: After making an adequate pivot, keep your back to the target for as long as is practical (and in so doing, delay the left shoulder pulling/turning left).

Make sense?

Totally. But for whatever reason the keep-the-back-turned-toward-the-target a bit longer at transition doesn't always work for some. In my case I think I get too focused on keeping the back turned and forget to start the hands/arms moving so I end up tugging anyway. Regardless, you've got the right idea.

 

[Richard the Nerd]

Would there be an optimum "hand path" and/or plane angle for the coupling point or are there "options"?

 

[birly-shirly]

Great Pic Mandrin... One quick question: FORCE FIRST TANGENTIAL THEN PERPENDICULAR TO THE ARC -- What word would you use to describe Perpendicular to the arc????

Michael - do you think Mandrin's graphic represents what you're talking about, in terms of the forces that line the club up? Or would you want to see a separate "active" torque around the coupling point in the latter half of the downswing?

 

[birly-shirly]

Brian - in Soft Draw, I think you say that scientists had calculated that force purely along the shaft was NOT optimal - and accounts for only 85% of possible clubhead speed? According to Zick and Jorgenson, you say, force across the shaft (in addition to force along the shaft) is needed in the part of the downswing AFTER the clubhead reaches vertical. Has the science changed?

 

[Brian Manzella]

As far as I can tell, here are Brian's best posts in laymen's terms describing how to perform the release.

Post #725: My personal experiment with the new release is going well. #1 thing to watch>>>>>>Don't TUG the left arm in transition.

Post #759: All I do is feel like I get the clubhead and arms started early without tugging, and bend my left wrist through impact as back-on-itself as I can. Definitely a freewheeling thing.

Post #764: Actually, the beginning of the rotation around the coupling point will probably happen sooner than the low point of the coupling point. And, it may FEEL LIKE it happens right away.

Post #857: If you don't turn enough away from the ball, you have NO CHANCE of not tugging. This is about limiting your pivot TO and THROUGH the ball, not in the backswing

Post #1266: From the top of your swing, try to start the arms before the unwind, and feel a little "out-toss" in your wrists. Have your hands go wide to the right as you continue down, and when you start feeling some out-force in the clubhead, start rotating the club head forward around the middle point of the hands in the direction of the right wrist straightening. This will put even more "out-force" energy in the club head. At that point feel like you jump off the ground and pull inward on the grip to strike the ball. Post impact, bend your left wrist back all the way without rotating your left arm much.

Thanks, carland.

Good work. A+

Would there be an optimum "hand path" and/or plane angle for the coupling point or are there "options"?

There are options!!!!

Brian - in Soft Draw, I think you say that scientists had calculated that force purely along the shaft was NOT optimal - and accounts for only 85% of possible clubhead speed? According to Zick and Jorgenson, you say, force across the shaft (in addition to force along the shaft) is needed in the part of the downswing AFTER the clubhead reaches vertical. Has the science changed?

Pure pulling only = 60%

Much less than we thought.

Pure pushing only = coo-coo for coco puffs

 

[kc8kir]

So can flipping be redefined from all of this as an early coupling point release caused by too rapid an ascension of the coupling point past the lowest point of the coupling point path, often motivated by an early pivot stall, creating an early normal force alignment prior to reaching the minimum impact hand location (just ahead of the ball to create shaft lean required to avoid leading edge first contact)?

Just trying to put it all together...

 

[birly-shirly]

Pure pulling only = 60%

Much less than we thought.

Pure pushing only = coo-coo for coco puffs

Thanks Brian - the force across the shaft, is applied by the right arm, therefore below the coupling point and is the force that "actively" rotates the club around the coupling point?

Pivot-powered FATS, or left arm FATS, or negative wrist torque would be the forces that result in excessive shaft lean?

 

[drewyallop]

"and when you start feeling some out-force in the clubhead, start rotating the club head forward around the middle point of the hands in the direction of the right wrist straightening. This will put even more "out-force" energy in the club head."

Twist away right? And the reason that the club ran away from me when I first tried it.

Drew

 

[dschultz6072]

Do I need more "out-toss"?
Do I need more width?
Do I need earlier right wrist straightening?
Do I need earlier "pull"
Do I need more right wrist straightening??

If I got more "out-toss" would all the other stuff follow "automatically"?

PS Jump just for fun.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HelpnrrOxjs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

reminds me of this one

just not hit quite as hard

 

[dbl]

Notice in the LD impact sequence near 35 seconds and on...low point of hands by right thigh, and coming into impact hands go up and roatation about the CP, etc. Works for him at 120+mph.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Would there be an optimum "hand path" and/or plane angle for the coupling point or are there "options"?

There are options!!!

 

[Richard the Nerd]

Does grip pressure, softness in arms/wrist play a role in any of this?

 

[Kamloops]

Are ideas like "shooting the blood out of your thumbs" at the bottom of the swing the opposite of the release we are talking about in this thread?

 

[Lindsey Newman]

Are ideas like "shooting the blood out of your thumbs" at the bottom of the swing the opposite of the release we are talking about in this thread?

In my opinion yes. You can shoot blood out of your thumbs by having the CP continuing to move downward.

 

[footwedge]

You better include some jump with that.

 

[Lindsey Newman]

You better include some jump with that.

Good point, I guess you good try to swing down with the arms to shoot the blood out, but something better be pulling the CP up.

 

[Robbohank]

As far as I can tell, here are Brian's best posts in laymen's terms describing how to perform the release.

Post #759: All I do is feel like I get the clubhead and arms started early without tugging, and bend my left wrist through impact as back-on-itself as I can.

Post #1266: Post impact, bend your left wrist back all the way without rotating your left arm much.

So counter-intuitive yet so critical. I couldn't come close to doing it with Brian a week ago but am better at it now and the ball really likes it.

We play a very devious game.

 

[Weetbix]

A TGM follower at another site posted this:
Keep in mind the club will follow your hands in their orbits around your left shoulder and the hands will be starting to move up and in while the club is still going down and out until the club overtakes the hands after the ball.

It appears that from that pro's perspective what you have said here is in line with TGM.

 

[Brian Manzella]

A TGM follower at another site posted this:
Keep in mind the club will follow your hands in their orbits around your left shoulder and the hands will be starting to move up and in while the club is still going down and out until the club overtakes the hands after the ball.

It appears that from that pro's perspective what you have said here is in line with TGM.

No.

No.

No.

And Heck no.

Here it is:

1. TGM does NOT want you to lose right wrist bend, and certainly doesn't want you to go from maximum bend to maximum arch in the plane of the right wrist bend. WE ARE SAYING TO TRY TO DO THIS.


2. TGM does not want you to mix active rotation around the coupling point in a swing with active lengthwise pull. WE ARE SAYING THAT EVERY SCIENTIFIC PAPER WE HAVE READ AND EVERY SCIENTIST WE HAVE ASKED TELLS YOU DO TO DO BOTH AND DO THEM AT PRECISE TIMES ON AN OFF.


3. When TGM "types" draw the "Geometry of the Circle" they never put the circle in the ground. The talk about taking every swing to "low point" and continue the thrust "DOWN PLANE." WE ABSOLUTELY WANT THE CIRCLE IN THE GROUND, AND WANT IT PULLED UP BY MASSIVE FORCE AWAY FROM DOWN PLANE.


​I could give you 20 more, but......

 

[Dariusz J.]

When reading some comments I simply see a complete lack of understanding what the whole thread is about. Noone promotes "flipping" (flipping is an error) here. All misunderstanding is because TGM sect called any action of natural reaction of the human wrist joints as "fllipping" and, hence, force poor golfers to drag the handle to the ridiculous level.
Once and for all - if there is no "flipping" before contact, it is no flipping at all.

Cheers

P.S. There were no problems if golf instruction used e.g. Cotton terms until now. End of the story. Geez.