Three Large Pieces of BALONEY!!!

[Brian Manzella]

Thanks, Marty!

I have obviously missed one your post along the way.. Maybe it was another forum but I thought you had responded saying the hitting the inside aft was like 1 dipple when you responded to someone asking how much.

This made sense to me that cause of the swing path (an arc) and the short duration in distance between impact and separation.

Is it someone has confrim what you (I think it was you) had advocated or were you advocating further to the inside?

Like the last one.... 'My name is Martee and I can Big Hook' with that path...

I am the one that said one dimple. I am surely not the only one.

The JOKE about this 11° inside-out path, is that Homer had somehow discovered a way to use ball position—angled hinging—etc. to make the ball fly straight with that path.

Ah.....no.


Of course, if you bend the clubs 6° flatter.....

 

[golfer24]

Can i just get this right please Brian your not advocating neither is Dr Zick hitting the dead back of the ball with a dead square clubface. Just not as much on the rear aft as previously thought.

 

[Michael Jacobs]

So sorry.

I am sooooo busy with this house of mine....I'll have to post some video_

Brian The Builder.

Anyhoo...

1. Ball Behavior the same for Angled and Horizontal Hinging.

2. You don't hit it very much on the inside-aft at all.

3. You can't resist impact deceleration a lick.

and several others....

But, my personal fav:

If you swing down the "Alternate Target Line" or "Angled of Approach" or anything like it, you get a BIG HOOK or big PUSH, at best.

The MANZELLA MATRIX and The MANZELLA ACADEMY....
...getting better everyday.

We could have told you these things a long time ago, if this is all "new" and revolutionary to you then you have a lot of homework to do
And if you think there is a difference in hitting and swinging - well, a conversation for another time
anywhoo --
you can call it what you want, describe it as you which - whatever helps the customization for a golfer

The alternate target line / angle of approach - was an experiment to disprove the old theory that no one can outright "hit" a ball -- it includes so much more than is portrayed in pop hitting --- stance line, plane line etc.......
For those out there trying to do these things with somewhat of a conventional pattern you will end up having to do a "reverse angle of approach procedure" to enjoy the benefits of "ball / Turf" once again

If you find these things confusing or elusive you need to attend the next Manzella Academy tour stop or the 1st Manzella Academy Summit which i need to push for and help Brian cause he is too busy right now with other stuff.....

 

[thefuture37]

The great philosopher Karl Popper noted that there are only two types of scientific theories - theories that have proven to be wrong and theories that have yet to be proven wrong.

A favorite quote of scientists is that philosophers talk about everything and know nothing...

 

[David Alford]

Correct movement trumps theory and facts.

 

[tongzilla]

1. Ball Behavior the same for Angled and Horizontal Hinging.

So even when the clubface is doing something different during impact, the ball still reacts in the same way? (doesn't this go against Manzella principles of impact conditions determining ball flight?)

In other words, the ball does the same thing whether the clubface is laying back + slow rate of closing (Angled Hinging), or no lay back + faster rate of closing (Horizontal Hinging)?

 

[bax1865]

Truth in pictures and physics

Its true. The ball is on the club for such a short period of time that it can not produce any dramatic difference between the two hinge actions. This of course is with the assumption of identical initial impact conditions.

 

[James Marshall (Hogan1953)]

So even when the clubface is doing something different during impact, the ball still reacts in the same way? (doesn't this go against Manzella principles of impact conditions determining ball flight?)

In other words, the ball does the same thing whether the clubface is laying back + slow rate of closing (Angled Hinging), or no lay back + faster rate of closing (Horizontal Hinging)?

Leo,

The way I read is that there is nothing we can do from impact to separation to influence ball behaviour, all the preparation for the shot characteristics must be done by impact.

 

[tongzilla]

Leo,

The way I read is that there is nothing we can do from impact to separation to influence ball behaviour, all the preparation for the shot characteristics must be done by impact.

Yes, I know. But does that mean the preparation you do for Angled Hinging and Horizontal Hinging gives the same ball flight?

 

[dale47]

Will this new information from Dr. Zick change the way any you instructors teach ?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Well...

For me, it all confirm things I have learned on my own.

But, I learn a lot from Dr. Zick everytime I get to hear him.

 

[armourall]

So even when the clubface is doing something different during impact, the ball still reacts in the same way? (doesn't this go against Manzella principles of impact conditions determining ball flight?)

In other words, the ball does the same thing whether the clubface is laying back + slow rate of closing (Angled Hinging), or no lay back + faster rate of closing (Horizontal Hinging)?

And does that mean there is no such thing as "gear effect"?

 

[Kevin Shields]

Will this new information from Dr. Zick change the way any you instructors teach ?

Not a lick.

 

[tobell]

Ball flight rules

Tongzilla,

I believe the point is given identical clubhead attitudes at impact and separation, the hinging method used to achieve that attitude is immaterial and has no independent impact on what the ball does. This does not conflict with Brian's ball flight rules, as the ball flight rules concern what the club attitude is at impact and separation, not the hinging methodology employed in achieving a particular condition.

Considering club-head attitude independent from the hinging methodology differs from what Homer originally suggested; Homer asserted that angled hinging was "uncentered" thus creating a open/fade/slice tendency that required compensations. Obviously these compensations are in fact not required as the hinging method itself doesn't affect ball reaction.

I find this interesting because some Homer devotees have long asserted that Homer's 12-2-0 pattern was the path toward the "uncompensated geometrically and physically true stroke". Homer's genious was in his diligence and persistence which yielded the most comprehensive vernacular and cataloging of the various golf stroke components to date. Recommending stroke patterns in the real golf world is better left to those practitioners with more hands on experience with John Q. Public than did Mr. Kelley

 

[pieman]

if you don't hit the back inside quadrant, what part of the ball SHOULD you be hitting at?

 

[mb6606]

To hit a dead straight shot with no curve - the ball must be square to the clubface at separation. I see little value in figuring out the number of degrees inside to accomplish it.

 

[self-mastery]

Is all of this just infoTAINMENT or does it have any real world relevance?

 

[self-mastery]

If you swing down the "Alternate Target Line" or "Angled of Approach" or anything like it, you get a BIG HOOK or big PUSH, at best.

The MANZELLA MATRIX and The MANZELLA ACADEMY....
...getting better everyday.

Is this why some of our misguided friends can't hit anything longer than a 6 iron without manipulated the face at address?

 

[rprevost]

If the swing is on an inclined plane, how does one *not* hit the back inside quadrant of the ball? I cannot remember which of Brian's videos it is, but in it he uses the grip end of a club like a pool cue to illustrate this fact about the plane of the swing. Is the topic here about how much to hit it on the back quadrant of the ball--one dimple or two--or is it about getting rid of the idea altogether?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Well...

I started another thread about this offshoot, but, since folks want to discuss it here, I will chime in.

This 1.2° open.

This is a PERFECTLY VERTICAL CLUBFACE.

It will produce a STRAIGHT SHOT with a STRAIGHT CLUBHEAD PATH.

I was reading some old posts tonight, and BOY have I learned a lot in the last couple of years.

I used to teach WAY TOO MUCH inside-aft quadrant, I adjusted, and now I teach better.