tongzilla
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If you use to teach way too much inside-aft quadrant, and still got great results, it may be because that's what the student needed to hear in order to get to a slightly inside-aft position.
Three Large Pieces of BALONEY!!!
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If you use to teach way too much inside-aft quadrant, and still got great results, it may be because that's what the student needed to hear in order to get to a slightly inside-aft position.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Not so great, by great's standards.I taught many a golfer to swing "down the yellow brick road."
These lessons accomplished the right amount of open/inside. So, I had a way.
But now I know WHY it worked.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Brian taught me 1 -2 degrees inside and, boy, has it made a difference.
David Alford
New
I never believed it had much validity in general. It's too "ball restricted". The swings the thing...let the ball just be in the way. I can't say I pay much attention to the ball except it's flight. That is useful.
However, a golfer should be able to feel whether he has hit the ball on the inside aft quadrant, at the back or on the outside aft quadrant.
However, a golfer should be able to feel whether he has hit the ball on the inside aft quadrant, at the back or on the outside aft quadrant.
I am new to TGM, and so maybe I don't understand the magnitude of this issue (i.e. hit on the inside back quadrant of the ball). Given the geometry of the swing on an inclined plane, surely where to hit the inside back quadrant of the ball would be dictated by plane angle--elbow plane vs. squared shoulder plane--and ball position--closer vs. further away from low point.
Steve Khatib
Super Moderator
Right On
Good One Michael Right on. I mean if you teach you see this all day and personal feels are just that, Science is King and Dr Zick told me at dinner that during his 3 hour lecture we basically had a half a college semester physics class. This is no 'whiskey talk'!
Good One Michael Right on. I mean if you teach you see this all day and personal feels are just that, Science is King and Dr Zick told me at dinner that during his 3 hour lecture we basically had a half a college semester physics class. This is no 'whiskey talk'!
2-J-2 question
The ball location for the picture Dr. Zick used was positioned practically at "low point". From what I read in 2-J-2 that would effect the amount of "inside-out" impact the club would have to the ball and also the amount of "inside" quadrant of the ball that would be struck. Am I wrong in thinking that ball position relative to low point will make a difference in where the ball is struck?
The ball location for the picture Dr. Zick used was positioned practically at "low point". From what I read in 2-J-2 that would effect the amount of "inside-out" impact the club would have to the ball and also the amount of "inside" quadrant of the ball that would be struck. Am I wrong in thinking that ball position relative to low point will make a difference in where the ball is struck?
birdie_man
New
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Nope.
The ball has NO IDEA about "plane lines" or "plane angles," just the PATH the clubhead makes through the ball.
And, by path, I mean up and down AND out and in.
So...in your example, the clubhead would still be moving OUT and the ball would respond to the effects of PATH vs. clubface.
Mr. Kelly did his best, but, on this one, he whiffed.
James Marshall (Hogan1953)
New member
Does this mean then that the sole function of a flat left wrist and bent right wrist at impact is to control the clubface, given that any attempt to resist impact deceleration has seemingly been proven futile?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I am still not clear how HK whiffed?
The drawing 1L explains a lot. If you take the club up the inclined plane - the shaft will still point at the plane line but the clubface will now be covering the alternate target. The alternate target line is approximately 11 degrees (depending on the inclined plane angle) from the plane line. You can figure this out yourself with a plane board and protractor.
The drawing 1L explains a lot. If you take the club up the inclined plane - the shaft will still point at the plane line but the clubface will now be covering the alternate target. The alternate target line is approximately 11 degrees (depending on the inclined plane angle) from the plane line. You can figure this out yourself with a plane board and protractor.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Well....maybe not Homer, but...
Whoever teaches that the club can swing down that 11° line, AND the club can CONTINUE on that line when hitting, angled hinging, griping it like Ed Fiori, setting up like Moe Norman with hemorrhoids, etc—and telling the students that the ball will go more or less straight is wrong.
And if Homer thought that, and I am saying IF, then he whiffed as well.
Whoever teaches that the club can swing down that 11° line, AND the club can CONTINUE on that line when hitting, angled hinging, griping it like Ed Fiori, setting up like Moe Norman with hemorrhoids, etc—and telling the students that the ball will go more or less straight is wrong.
And if Homer thought that, and I am saying IF, then he whiffed as well.
David Alford
New
<Mr. Kelly did his best, but, on this one, he whiffed.>
Exactly correct. HK did some VERY insightful work, particularly for his time. I think it would be hard to learn a great golf swing from TGM, although it would be good source, once understood, to anyone interested in the range of options.
At any rate, great strikers of the golf ball, seemingly in contradiction do NOT pay much attention to the ball except for ball flight feedback. That's why eye hand coordination is almost a bogus subject. You don't dry to correct your swing one way or another to hit the ball perfectly.
Someone might say, "well, you ought to". My reply is "no". The swings the thing. Concentrate on that. And you DO NOT try to swing down an 11 degree alternate line.
Exactly correct. HK did some VERY insightful work, particularly for his time. I think it would be hard to learn a great golf swing from TGM, although it would be good source, once understood, to anyone interested in the range of options.
At any rate, great strikers of the golf ball, seemingly in contradiction do NOT pay much attention to the ball except for ball flight feedback. That's why eye hand coordination is almost a bogus subject. You don't dry to correct your swing one way or another to hit the ball perfectly.
Someone might say, "well, you ought to". My reply is "no". The swings the thing. Concentrate on that. And you DO NOT try to swing down an 11 degree alternate line.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Just like I said before...
If that works for you, great.
Ben teaches what Ben teaches. If the right student comes along, they become a heck of a ball striker.
If that works for you, great.
Ben teaches what Ben teaches. If the right student comes along, they become a heck of a ball striker.
birdie_man
New
When we are talking about execution, I generally agree David. Or at least- this is how I do it.
Setup.....then a backswing trigger to get er goin where you want and with what you want......then downswing trigger- to "hit it."
I like. And I agree.
David Alford
New
Some of the confusion stems from our knowledge the swing path is an arc and we know the clubhead is approaching the ball on that arc, so why shouldn't the inside quadrant be important to us?
But keep in mind the club should be parallel to the target line when parallel to the ground. With a correct so called "late release" the hands are almost even with the ball at this moment (between the knees). The release should be automatic. Consequentially so should the last travel of clubhead on the to the ball. Hence, no need to worry about it or the inside quadrant.
With a hitting pattern the action is more manipulated via pressure point 3 (for example). So although the release should still be automatic, the conscious direction of the pressure point travel is toward that inside quadrant.
In summary, the inside quadrant focus is more important to hitters.
But keep in mind the club should be parallel to the target line when parallel to the ground. With a correct so called "late release" the hands are almost even with the ball at this moment (between the knees). The release should be automatic. Consequentially so should the last travel of clubhead on the to the ball. Hence, no need to worry about it or the inside quadrant.
With a hitting pattern the action is more manipulated via pressure point 3 (for example). So although the release should still be automatic, the conscious direction of the pressure point travel is toward that inside quadrant.
In summary, the inside quadrant focus is more important to hitters.
David Alford
New
Yes, we're the executioner. Pull the lever. Or push it. Or put it on automatic. But just send that little ball to heaven with nary a thought in the last moment.
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