Year end musings

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mjstrong

mjstrong

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mandrin said:
Ryan,

Very Intriguing. Are you simply guessing or is there an intuitive reasoning behind your refreshingly different opinion. :)
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I'll take a stab at this instead. Due to the increased mass, the impact interval of the collision between the ball and clubface is increased, and the energy transferred is smaller. :)

I'm totally grasping at straws here...
 
mandrin

mandrin

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mjstrong said:
Okay, I'll do by best "more scientific" approach. Momentum and collision formulae. Can I make some assumptions? I will.

First off, it bothers me that you listed the length of the club shaft in your examples, but I do not account for them in my guess. Oh well.

Looking at the second scenario: Taking into account the clubhead's mass, the clubhead's mass, and the ball's mass, and assuming a resultant ball speed of 240km/h (1.5 smash factor assumption), the clubhead's post-collision velocity should be about 109.8 km/h.

Now, here's where I don't believe myself. I'll assume that slowdown ratio (clubhead slowing down from 160 to 109.8, or 68.6%) applies to the heavier mass. So...you know what, I'm not going to continue because my resultant ball speed would be millions of kilometre's per hour. Probably barking up the wrong tree....
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mjstrong,

I appreciate your serious efforts to come up with an answer. I will take from it that you feel that the ball departure velocity is increasing significantly when the very heavy mass is present behind the shaft.
 
mandrin

mandrin

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mjstrong said:
I'll take a stab at this instead. Due to the increased mass, the impact interval of the collision between the ball and clubface is increased, and the energy transferred is smaller. :)

I'm totally grasping at straws here...
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mjstrong,

You certainly are capable to look at a problem from various directions, sign of a versatile mind. ;)
 
J

jmessner

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Kinetic Energy and CoR

My calculations show the ball speed from the "heavy hit" is 23% faster than the "light hit", independent of CoR. We're still assuming no mass to the shaft and no flexing of the shaft, I hope.

Jay
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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I think I know the answer but I have to admit it still seems pretty counter-intuitive!

Funny.....the power of these "seems-as-ifs" eh?

But keep the science coming...

And it becomes an unfair competition.
 
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J

jake2

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I'll take another stab at it:
~23% higher speed with the bigger mass.
Dropping the weight to 100kg would still do the same.
 
ggsjpc

ggsjpc

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this smells like the old which weighs more 100lbs of feather or 100 lbs of bricks. they are both traveling at the same 160km/h speed, granted it took much more force to get the heavy one moving that fast, so i'll go with a negligable difference.
 
mandrin

mandrin

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ggsjpc said:
this smells like the old which weighs more 100lbs of feather or 100 lbs of bricks. they are both traveling at the same 160km/h speed, granted it took much more force to get the heavy one moving that fast, so i'll go with a negligable difference.
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ggsjpc,

Are you quite sure?

If I had you strung up about 50 ft in the air and you had the choice of either 100 lbs of feather or 100 lbs of brick to cushion the inevitable fall since I am going to let go, what would be your preference? :D
 
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jpeck

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mandrin said:
jpeck,

Is it hence correct to assume that you expect, with a extremely heavy clubhead, there to be a reasonable significant increase in departure velocity?
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I don't expect there would be a reaonably significant increase in departure velocity with an extremely heavy clubhead; a measureable difference perhaps, just not enough to be significant to the golfer.

I recall testing a 'heavy club' back in the early 1990s. The marketing hype suggested the heavier-than-standard clubhead would hit the ball further than a standard clubhead. I didn't measure the drives I hit with the club, but I saw no increase in distance over my usual driver.
 
J

jake2

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jpeck said:
I don't expect there would be a reaonably significant increase in departure velocity with an extremely heavy clubhead; a measureable difference perhaps, just not enough to be significant to the golfer.

I recall testing a 'heavy club' back in the early 1990s. The marketing hype suggested the heavier-than-standard clubhead would hit the ball further than a standard clubhead. I didn't measure the drives I hit with the club, but I saw no increase in distance over my usual driver.
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The equations I was using would give about 10% increase in ball velocity with double club head mass. But you'd have to be able to still achieve the same club head speed to get the increase, which I guess is the problem in real life.
 
J

JonWil

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mandrin said:
ggsjpc,

Are you quite sure?

If I had you strung up about 50 ft in the air and you had the choice of either 100 lbs of feather or 100 lbs of brick to cushion the inevitable fall since I am going to let go, what would be your preference? :D
Click to expand...

Delicious!:)
 
B

burners

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Ok...here's my shot

It's been 25 years since my last physics course, but how about KE=1/2MV (squared)? In Mandrin's case everything is constant but the mass. However, the mass of the "heavy" object is considerably larger. Not sure I want to solve for Delta KE in this case, but gotta believe that if I have a clubhead on the front of a freight train going the the same velocity as say a javelin with a clubhead on the front, that the train wins the KE prize.
 
shortgamer

shortgamer

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If my memory serves me correct I thought I remembered hearing some touring pro's saying they wanted heavy putters for fast greens and light putters for slow greens. Seemed bass ackwards to me at the time. Could this apply to Mandrins question?
 
mandrin

mandrin

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burners said:
It's been 25 years since my last physics course, but how about KE=1/2MV (squared)? In Mandrin's case everything is constant but the mass. However, the mass of the "heavy" object is considerably larger. Not sure I want to solve for Delta KE in this case, but gotta believe that if I have a clubhead on the front of a freight train going the the same velocity as say a javelin with a clubhead on the front, that the train wins the KE prize.
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burners,

It is indeed very difficult to escape that very strong intuitive feeling when evoking the image of the vehicle or train playing golf. :)
 
ggsjpc

ggsjpc

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irrelevant

mandrin said:
ggsjpc,

Are you quite sure?

If I had you strung up about 50 ft in the air and you had the choice of either 100 lbs of feather or 100 lbs of brick to cushion the inevitable fall since I am going to let go, what would be your preference? :D
Click to expand...

that won't sway me. we're talking about equal speeds and ball velocity. not feathers and bricks
 
mandrin

mandrin

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Opinion poll

poll_impact_1.gif


I have put the various opinions, posted so far, conveniently together in a bar chart. An interesting wide opinion range.​
 
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