2005 Golfing Machine Teaching Summit

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MizunoJoe

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quote:Originally posted by mikestloc

MJ, are you kidding me? Do you have ANY idea what you're talking about when it comes to Clampett and Doyle? I would guess that you are completely in the dark and are going by fifth hand hearsay and conjecture. Give it a rest.
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Video of the lesson is FIFTH hand? I made a specific point about Ben's approach and your reply is that I'm completely in the dark - thanks for the "explanation".

As for Clampett, you as well as everyone else has dodged the question why he went in desperation to Jimmy "No Angles" Ballard.

As far as giving it a rest, you've been doing just that as far as debate of the golf swing. What is this forum - just a support group for unquestioning believers?
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Man......c'mon. Who knows or gives a **** why he went to Jimmy "no angles" Ballard....whoever the hell that is.

Did this Ballard guy get him back to the top??? Did he even get him to the top in the first place? No.

There's lots of reasons why someone can get into a rut.....in life and in golf....

But relating to golf, you can bet that when he wasn't playing well his golf swing was NOT the same as the one he developed with Homer (and Ben?), right? The swing of "the best ballstriker in the world," at the time.

Would that make sense?
 
Michael Finney

Michael Finney

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Ok MJ, you said - Ben was "trying" to teach the student Swinging. But, he was using the flawed notion of "impact hands", which leads the student to do the "around" motion of the arms, with the arms, instead of with the pivot.

You say Ben was teaching a "flawed notion of impact hands" and the "around motion of the arms, with the arms".....I have worked with Ben...I am a swinger....Ben's explanations of "impact hands", "impact fix", etc. were lucid, well constructed, and successful. His lessons on pivot and educated hands were enlightening and a benefit to my game. We never discussed "around" with the arms...I never felt "around" with the arms...If you look at my swing you won't see "around" with my arms. What more do you want? You have Clampett exonerating TGM fully in the above interviews.

Who is your instructor, your guru...Let's see how absolutely flawless his teachings are. I'll wait.
 
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MizunoJoe

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mstl,

Only you know what you are really doing - but looking at your swing, I'd bet that you ARE NOT using impact hands, and that in fact, you are cranking up, hanging on, and unwinding hard without regard to a water bottle lying out there to your left.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Here's my theory on the matter:

Once you learn to sustain the lag, and hold a flat left wrist until a point so late in the swing where it becomes almost physically impossible or unrealistic to do so.....

.....I'd think your chances of throwing it away during an ACTUAL swing are much less.

I guess properly using Physics (which would be more learning not to get in its way) would be a part of achieving great alignments......

But as it's been said before "sometimes you have to over-learn something."
 
Michael Finney

Michael Finney

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MJ...untrue..i remember it like yesterday.....when ben showed me where my hands appeared on the ground at impact fix.....my pretty good ball striking went to really good ball striking......i was 22......i'm 38 now.......now, to be honest i don't consciously think about "the water bottle's location" because i don't have to anymore......it just happens......but i can say that IMMEDIATELY after the above was explained I GOT BETTER....more shots went closer the flag
 
tongzilla

tongzilla

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Mike is now subconsiously using the Aiming Point Concept (6-E-2) -- mandatory when using the Automatic Snap Release.
 
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Non-AuthorizedTGM

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quote:Originally posted by Playa_Brian

quote:Originally posted by bantamben1

i agree with nonatgm mac never said anything bad about the book to me. another note he has the book practically memorized he constantly quotes things page numbers paragraphs to help me correlate what he is teaching and gives homer credit for knowing certain things as well
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Homer Kelley said, "He [Mac] is a receptive, astute golfer. I believe he is probably the most knowledgeable student I have--equal, if not superior, to Clampett.'
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I heard that once said of Mac as well...But being a knowledgable player is different from a knowledgeable student and a knowledgable teacher....
 
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MizunoJoe

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mtsl,

As you said, "my pretty good ball striking went to really good ball striking". You already had the physics of a good swing. Anyone who can read a manuel can tune up a Ferrari. Building one from scratch is a different story.
 
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6bee1dee

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I think mj is confused. He always pushes physics into the argument as if Geometry as only a bunch of lines and angle. Check Homer's Preface. Geometry is Motion. Homer had no fixed lines. It a golfer had good physics according to you, he had good Geometry to Homer. Physics is action- it is the thrust you apply on the geomtery.
 
Michael Finney

Michael Finney

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quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

mtsl,

As you said, "my pretty good ball striking went to really good ball striking". You already had the physics of a good swing. Anyone who can read a manuel can tune up a Ferrari. Building one from scratch is a different story.
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I would guess that Ben is THE BEST in the country at taking someone "from scratch". Ben is the epitome of the developmental teacher - so, in my estimation, your argument loses value...
 
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MizunoJoe

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Those who know Ben personally don't like to hear anything but praise for him, much like the Tomasello devotees. The "epitome of the developmental teacher" could have found a way to get the student to transport the hands via the pivot, rather than just repeating over and over again, "you're adding, you're adding", and "I'm so disappointed".
 
Michael Finney

Michael Finney

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if you ever worked with him, you would understand his approach......it's about absorbing and applying,incubating....not necessarily immediate EUREKA.....do you think the guy on the video would have stopped his overacceleration within 60 minutes if Hank Haney was giving the lesson?....do you think haney would have even identified overacceleration?

who are the teachers that get immediate success? WHO ARE THEY?????......mclean?, rick smith, reinmuth, leadbetter, lynn blake, andy plummer, mike hebron, haney, harmon, todd anderson, lumpkin, pelz, ron gring, rob akins?????........WHO ARE THE GUYS THAT DELIVER THE RESULTS? WHO EXPLAINS AND COACHES IT THE BEST? tell me, MJ......i can't wait to hear
 
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MizunoJoe

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Brian was a frustated student of Ben's until he dug it out of the dirt himself. There's no doubt in my mind that Brian would have figured a way to get that guy to move the hands with the pivot in an hour's time.

Now having said that, Brian, having been influenced by Ben, exhibits a "shaft up the left arm" obsession. Lynn Blake exhibits the same syndrome. That's OK, but not necessary.
 
Michael Finney

Michael Finney

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as opposed to the "clubhead passing the hands soon after separation" syndrome...also know as "i'm a hacker" syndrome.....

i think Brian was frustrated after his initial lesson with Ben because he couldn't do what Ben was asking him to do...not because it didn't make any sense or he was confused.....when he returned home to new orleans after that first trip he showed me what Ben had showed him....i liked it....it was similar to what i was told by mike perpich in 1985 at LSU.....perpich by the way was a big o'grady - mudd disciple.....
 
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