slicer2scratch
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The fact here Will is you have been under a spell of method/system instruction of which you think has to do with some new ball flight law standard of instruction. In reality there are other successful ways of instruction.
Debate: Path or Clubface to Fix a Slice —now with Manzella MIT project data on page 6
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Williamevanl
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Sure, but it sounds like you guys subscribe to some hybrid set of ball flight laws that fit your teaching philosophy. Some post so far have just been 100% false, that doesn't bother you?
Matt 4-L
New
Your a couple years late William, The new ball flight laws and trackman data have been preached here before trackman data was cool, take a look back at the archives, your barking up the wrong tree.
Williamevanl
New
The consequence of the science:
A person is hitting a pull slice, clubface is closed to target line, path is out to in, face is open to the path.
You guys close the face further, now the clubface is more closed to the target line, path still out to in, club is square to the path(so pull now).
Now you start to change the path resulting in, closed to target line, inside out path, face extremely closed to the path.
Now you change the club face angle again so that the whole thing is square to the path?
And most importantly at the I'm hitting pulls and adjusting my swingplane to more inside out, any progress I make towards correcting my path will result in an increasingly worse shot!
A person is hitting a pull slice, clubface is closed to target line, path is out to in, face is open to the path.
You guys close the face further, now the clubface is more closed to the target line, path still out to in, club is square to the path(so pull now).
Now you start to change the path resulting in, closed to target line, inside out path, face extremely closed to the path.
Now you change the club face angle again so that the whole thing is square to the path?
And most importantly at the I'm hitting pulls and adjusting my swingplane to more inside out, any progress I make towards correcting my path will result in an increasingly worse shot!
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Williamevanl
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So you are telling me that you guys don't believe the ball flight laws? That's cool, just make sure SS knows.
Matt 4-L
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Nope, not the old ball flight laws, we subscribe to the new ball flight laws.
natep
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Williamevenl,
What would you do to help someone who hit a right to right slice? Change the path??
Not all slices are pull slices. There are two sides to the spectrum.
No one is saying that all outside in swings are made because of an open face.
In some cases the path needs fixed. In some cases the face. Some cases both. They are both interdependent on each other and obviously they both need to be correct.
I don't see where you're coming from, stating that people on this site dont know ball flight laws and/or dont know how to teach.
What would you do to help someone who hit a right to right slice? Change the path??
Not all slices are pull slices. There are two sides to the spectrum.
No one is saying that all outside in swings are made because of an open face.
In some cases the path needs fixed. In some cases the face. Some cases both. They are both interdependent on each other and obviously they both need to be correct.
I don't see where you're coming from, stating that people on this site dont know ball flight laws and/or dont know how to teach.
slicer2scratch
New
Why a ball is going a certain direction(ball flight laws) outside in swing plus face square or closed to the target(slice). versus how do you fix it or what is the underlying cause of that impact condition are two different things. The reason for the outside in swing is because of an overly open clubface.
The club face may be closed to the intended target line, but the slicer without knowing will start to "aim" more and more left, keeping the same club face control(or lack of) the same which no longer allows for a correct "target line" for that golfer.
I've been there and the quickest fix was to fix the club face and work on correct alignment. Jim is totally correct in that it felt as if the club face was closed a ton, but was not even square.
So, if you try to "fix" the path of a slicer first, you will have them swing in to out. They will still have the club face wide open. This will produce a better shot? Enlighten us how.
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Williamevanl
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Okay, well then I'm not sure I understand your post?
Matt 4-L
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Old ball flight law.....Ball starts on path and curves towards face
New ball flight law.....D-plane.
There is so much info here in the archives I am not going to get into the D-plane, it as been discussed here ad nauseam.
Williamevanl
New
Yea I see that now that I got a chance to glance over the forum by why do we have someone saying that the club face is fine in a pull but the path is wrong? Also my consequence of the science post holds true for fixing a slice with the face first.
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softconsult
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I like the guy that just says ignorance... Terrific! Curious ss which forum seemed like a better source of information? One with golf geeks pouring over trackman data, and highspeed film, or people that just stridently say face?
William, you are making yourself look, well ignorant is a good word. You are acting
like a new manager, who on his first day in his new assignment starts issuing new marching orders. Problem is he never considered that he might need to find out what's going on in this new place.
Before you go on and on, do some research. It's in the archives. You could start by watching Brian Manzella's Golf Channel Audition, its a sticky I think.
Regards,
William, you are making yourself look, well ignorant is a good word. You are acting
like a new manager, who on his first day in his new assignment starts issuing new marching orders. Problem is he never considered that he might need to find out what's going on in this new place.
Before you go on and on, do some research. It's in the archives. You could start by watching Brian Manzella's Golf Channel Audition, its a sticky I think.
Regards,
Williamevanl
New
I certainly haven't said anything about anybody's ability to teach... What order would I fix a right to right slice, well it wouldn't matter but if the face is only slightly open to the targetline then fixing the path alone would result in a push draw.
Williamevanl
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Softconsult, thats kind of the idea, I sent SS to the sandtrap with some of the ideas in this thread and he was basically dissed by everyone, told he didn't get it and then his thread was locked it's only fair that I come over here and see what he is talking about.
And I'm not looking for a huge lesson on the culture here I'm just trying to understand some basic facts.
And I'm not looking for a huge lesson on the culture here I'm just trying to understand some basic facts.
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What would you get then if you just kept moving the path more and more left but kept your slightly open face. How about a wide open face? How about moving the path more and more right and keeping the face open. All to an original target line.
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Matt 4-L
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Your assuming that changing the path will not change the face to the targetline. I would guess 95% of slicers don't know how to properly close the face.
Oh, by the way, welcome to the forum...hang around there is lots of great info shared here.
Williamevanl
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I'm not sure of the point you are making, it almost sound like we agree.. That can't be can you clarify?
Williamevanl
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Thats the cool thing, on the sandtrap they actually have the trackman info on how the club face angle change correlates to the club path change, which is nearly negligible.
Also the consensus was that 90+% of slicers slice with a clubface that is square or closed to the target line.
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