Debate: Path or Clubface to Fix a Slice —now with Manzella MIT project data on page 6
- Thread starter slicer2scratch
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
Hey William....
Can I give you a call?
Love to answer this one live.
Brian
I'll tape it and post it up.
Can I give you a call?
Love to answer this one live.
Brian
I'll tape it and post it up.
Again, "target line" is not the same as the gofler's alignment.
Williamevanl
New
Why would you prefer that format over this one? As I said before I'm really just looking for some basic answers. I think this is a cool idea but I think you should have it with iacas. He has a lot of empirical information to offer that I don't have.
Williamevanl
New
Maybe, Brian you could scan through the entire thread about this exact issue on the sandtrap and respond to that. I certainly can't be representative of all the points raised there.
slicer2scratch
New
I would like to apologize if this is causing trouble. As this was never my intention. Will and I got into this in another forum I told him How I have fixed my slice and others by a fix the face first approach. He sent me over to a different forum (which I have not named) out of respect. However I got hammered over there I asked will to have an open mind enough to come over here and listen to all the great golf minds who also use NEW ball flight laws.
This was strictly intended to show him that their is not one SYSTEM that is a gold standard of NEW ball flight law teaching. I never intended this to cause trouble in anyway. As I respect everyone on here, AS ALSO I respect Will and whatever prefrence in forum he has. I just want him and others to realize that the other forum is not A UNIVERSAL GOLD standard. Its ONE approach.
This was strictly intended to show him that their is not one SYSTEM that is a gold standard of NEW ball flight law teaching. I never intended this to cause trouble in anyway. As I respect everyone on here, AS ALSO I respect Will and whatever prefrence in forum he has. I just want him and others to realize that the other forum is not A UNIVERSAL GOLD standard. Its ONE approach.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
This is not an ambush....in fact, I am doing a talk on this subject to some golf pros in a week.
The phone would be much better.
You can call me—my number is 502.417.4653
The phone would be much better.
You can call me—my number is 502.417.4653
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
you are right, open to the path which means OPEN clubface. Where the face is pointing in relation to the target line is 100% irreverent. If those pull slicers clubfaces were actually square or shut the ball would go left.
Williamevanl
New
It would be cool though to see Brian and Erik hash out their perspectives of how to fix a slice. It's wild two people with the same understanding of ball flight laws hold opposite positions on how a slice is fixed. (though I still don't understand this face first thing at all) 
Brian Manzella
Administrator
It would be cool though to see Brian and Erik hash out their perspectives of how to fix a slice. It's wild two people with the same understanding of ball flight laws hold opposite positions on how a slice is fixed. (though I still don't understand this face first thing at all)
It might be better if we just talk about it first.
slicer2scratch
New
Will this is what I was trying to get across to you days ago. It was never a knowledge of ball flight laws issue. It was a how to approach the fix.
I believe theres a Big difference between Brian and the other forum however.
Brian listens to what you have to say and is willing to call you man to man and EXPLAIN things.
Your forum takes down my posts so no one sees them (simply because they dont conform to their systems instruction). Points out miss spelled words which at times are typos because my typing is horrible.etc.etc.To make them look good and whoever doesnt conform to their views look bad.(IMHO)
I believe theres a Big difference between Brian and the other forum however.
Brian listens to what you have to say and is willing to call you man to man and EXPLAIN things.
Your forum takes down my posts so no one sees them (simply because they dont conform to their systems instruction). Points out miss spelled words which at times are typos because my typing is horrible.etc.etc.To make them look good and whoever doesnt conform to their views look bad.(IMHO)
Brian Manzella
Administrator
59:45
William & I talked for an hour.
I should have taped it.
He is smart young guy who just has not been educated in the D-Plane and just hasn't seen enough real world evidence of someone like me or my guys fix a slice in 5 minutes, sometime never even having to fix the path as well.
It was really good "show prep" for any objections to my findings, and D-Plane basics.
I think I made a small dent in a totally oppositely indoctrinated golfer.
William & I talked for an hour.
I should have taped it.
He is smart young guy who just has not been educated in the D-Plane and just hasn't seen enough real world evidence of someone like me or my guys fix a slice in 5 minutes, sometime never even having to fix the path as well.
It was really good "show prep" for any objections to my findings, and D-Plane basics.
I think I made a small dent in a totally oppositely indoctrinated golfer.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Awesome. I could tell by a lot of what he was saying he really didn't understand the d-plane, nice of you to take the time b-man!
slicer2scratch
New
This was one of the hottest topics on several forums and hopeful there is just a little more of an open mind about things now.
Seeing how hot of a topic that this was I can only imagine how lucrative or just even how many hits it would get on you tube If the TOP instructors from the forums got together to discuss this matter.
Just food for thought.
Seeing how hot of a topic that this was I can only imagine how lucrative or just even how many hits it would get on you tube If the TOP instructors from the forums got together to discuss this matter.
Just food for thought.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
your dedication to teaching and truly taking the time to try to get people to understand and get better ( and to go out of your way to help people) deserves commendation.
Kudos
dan
Williamevanl
New
I'm still here Jim, quit talking about me like I'm not here I appreciate Brian talking we me. He definitely provided me with a different perspective about how a golfer learns to react to ball flight.
I appreciate Brian talking we me. He definitely provided me with a different perspective about how a golfer learns to react to ball flight.Brian Manzella
Administrator
Been there done that....
I was a presenter for the 2008 MIT Better Golf Through Technology National Teaching Summit.
My research was on the value of the "twistaway" to the swing of a common typical slicer or higher handicap golfer.
For this project i was only allowed to WEAKEN GRIPS, and could not adjust the flying wedge rotation, or anything else I might use in an actual lesson.
I was allowed to show the golfer the "twistaway" for 3 minutes.
Not 3 hours, or lessons, or weeks, or months.
I couldn't, and didn't draw lines, use the term right forearm takeaway, or steepen any shoulder turns.
I COULD NOT EVEN MENTION PATH. And I didn't.
This data was from Trackman.
The golfers who are listed in the results who have "control" data, were allowed to practice what ever they thought would make for better shots for 3 minutes with NO IMPUT FROM ME.
I then taught them for 3 minutes each, just like the golfers who have no "control" data.
I think the results speak for themselves, and should end this discussion for ever and ever and all times. But it won't.
Here it is:
I was a presenter for the 2008 MIT Better Golf Through Technology National Teaching Summit.
My research was on the value of the "twistaway" to the swing of a common typical slicer or higher handicap golfer.
For this project i was only allowed to WEAKEN GRIPS, and could not adjust the flying wedge rotation, or anything else I might use in an actual lesson.
I was allowed to show the golfer the "twistaway" for 3 minutes.
Not 3 hours, or lessons, or weeks, or months.
I couldn't, and didn't draw lines, use the term right forearm takeaway, or steepen any shoulder turns.
I COULD NOT EVEN MENTION PATH. And I didn't.
This data was from Trackman.
The golfers who are listed in the results who have "control" data, were allowed to practice what ever they thought would make for better shots for 3 minutes with NO IMPUT FROM ME.
I then taught them for 3 minutes each, just like the golfers who have no "control" data.
I think the results speak for themselves, and should end this discussion for ever and ever and all times. But it won't.
Here it is:
slicer2scratch
New
Brian I would ask if you mind if I could take this data to another forum...However many have such a narrow perspective on things they would either delete it because it posed a threat , or find some way to dispute it. So therefore I wont ask..lol or waste my time. Thanks for the info and the post very intersting.
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