The Release w/Brian Manzella & Michael Jacobs

[ffejeff224]

Force Across the Shaft - Clinically known as TANGENTIAL FORCE:

18 Handicap - {obviously as a 18 handicap, not a consistent striker at all}

7.8 % of total tangential force still present at impact


13 Handicap - {obviously as a 13 handicap, not a consistent striker}

3.8 % of total tangential force still present at contact


5 Handicap - {obviously a good scorer and gets the ball around the golf course well}

6.7% of total tangential force still present at contact


Professional Player

Obviously a consistent player if they are a professional player who has sustained a career at golf

0% of total Tangential Force present at impact

If this doesn't prove it what does? For all of you folks out there who are posting snide comments on a website that is truly dedicated to finding and sharing the truth about the golf swing go and try this. Go to the range and hit ten balls while trying to lean the shaft forward hitting an aiming point on the target line with lots of force across the shaft. And then hit shots while noticing the low point of your hands and from there allowing the clubhead to close the gap and moving the hands up and in. I guarantee you that the first will result in inconsistent contact, a ball flight that is completely unpredictable, and shorter distances. And the later will give you a straighter ball flight, more consistent contact, and more distance.

Keeping the hands ahead of the clubface is something that just happens because of other factors in the golf swing. Chasing after achieving forward shaft lean is just plain silly and has ruined the swing of many many golfers throughout time.

Thank you Brian, Michael, and others who have worked so hard on Project 1.68 to finally compile all the TRUE information about golf swing in one place. Even though this stuff had been done by great players for a long time, there is no one who has yet to actually put all this information in one place. You all are doing a great service to not only all the weekend warrior golf fanatics, but also the golfing industry as a whole and I could see this project resulting in a lot of very happy golfers who are no longer befuddled by the mounds of useless information in the golfing world. All you teachers and naysayers who hang on to false ideals watch out!

 

[Bigwill]

@Todd Dugan:


I think that having a little slack a the top would help with the first move. That said, the first move is more away from the target that the left arm. As far as the hands moving up and in with the straight left arm, I would think that could be done via left shoulder movement.

 

[Tophdad]

MJ Show Part 3 Question(s)

How do you correctly close the gap?
What are the common errors people make when closing the gap (how not to close the gap)?
How do you keep the club from lining up too early (passing the hands before impact)?

 

[ffejeff224]

Notice the super-straight left arm at the top.

Here's a couple legit questions (which will probably be ignored)........

How are you supposed to move the handle farther from your left shoulder from the top when your left arm is already straight?

And, how are you supposed to move the handle up and in sooner with the left arm straight?

I am not an expert, but by using the shoulder complexes a golfer would be able to manipulate the hands even with a straight left arm to have the hands moving up and in at impact.

I do remember Brian and Michael advocating a slightly bent left arm at the top of the backswing so that the average golfer could learn to feel what it feels like to move the clubhead away from the ball at the start of the downswing.

 

[fronesis]

How do you keep from flipping (or teach a non-flippy swing)

OK, after reading all of this, watching all the videos, and spending some time on the range, I am convinced. I thought MJ's second video was really strong, and clarified some crucial bits of information that were missing in the first video. THANKS so much to Brian and Michael for the research and hard work and for bringing this material to light.

I see pretty clearly how if you have a decent player who has spent lots of time trying to get lag, trying to hit with lots of FATS, and trying to use aiming point or having lots of forward lean, that these ideas could translately quickly into a much-improved swing.

But what do you do with a flipper? A lot of TGM stuff has now been debunked, but some of it was really helpful in trying to get the flipper not to flip.

My dad hits every shot with his right hand. He has no swing, he just flips at everything. His club head low point is therefore coming far too early in his swing. And I'm not sure how I can use all this GREAT info in this thread about what really happens in a good swing in order to help him build a better swing.

So if we toss out flat left wrist, PP#3, and lots of forward shaft lean, how do you teach a flipper the proper rotation around the coupling point (the proper release)?

 

[mew09]

Have read this thread closely.

IMHO the motion of the "coupling point/butt of club" away from the "target" at the start of the downswing is primarily a motion due to the initial unwind of the right shoulder. Sure the "pull an arrow from a quiver" action could come from other motion of the arms, but video from professionals (such as McIroy, this thread) from behind reveal the motion is coupled to the right shoulder movement.

Similarly, the "up and in" motion of the handle near impact seems to be due to movement of the left shoulder moving 'up and back'.

In my experiments since reading this thread I realize my past swing has focused on either the right side or the left side but not both. Now incorporating these elements from BZ/MJ (this thread) I recall that both elements are contained in the "throw the drunk off your back" move.

Indeed my ball striking has made a quantum leap with less effort.

Thanks Micheal and Brian.

 

[Jwat]

So if we toss out flat left wrist, PP#3, and lots of forward shaft lean, how do you teach a flipper the proper rotation around the coupling point (the proper release)?

Wouldn't just tossing these things out automatically fix his flip? Maybe just eliminating these swing mechanics and not replacing them with anything else other than closing the gap between the clubhead and the ball might be the cure.

 

[fronesis]

Wouldn't just tossing these things out automatically fix his flip?

Ah, I should have been clearer: he doesn't have a a flat left wrist or really try or know how to monitor PP#3. These are things I have studied and tried, and they are things that I have thought about as I try to teach him to swing without the flip. But unlike many folks on here who have learned how to hit the ball with a FLW, I am talking about players like my dad who have ALWAYS hit the ball with the right hand breaking under the left and a very bent left wrist.

Maybe just eliminating these swing mechanics and not replacing them with anything else other than closing the gap between the clubhead and the ball might be the cure.

I guess the test would be to try to just teach him to "close the gap" or to "line it up" and see how he hits it. My worry though is that these notions will do nothing to discourage him from throwing the club head at the ball with his right hand. I used to be a flpper, and I really think that if you'd taught me to "close the gap" I would have thrown the club head at the ball and down the target line (just as I always had).

But I could be wrong, and I'm not a really golf teacher anyway. Just trying to learn and share that learning with others.

 

[Todd Dugan]

Look, I'm not a "book guy", but let me defend the Aiming Point procedure. There is so much confusion regarding it, that I'm sure most people really don't understand it properly. Here we go............the right arm should STRAIGHTEN. Which is EXACTLY what Jacobs is proposing. It is a straightening of the right arm which would allow you to move the handle farther from you as you begin the downswing. The Aiming Point is simply a place where you DIRECT the straightening of the right arm. Of course, the right hand never moves in a straight line. Neither does the clubhead, or anything else that is rotated about a center. But by FEELING as though you are straightening your right arm in a straight line to a point on the plane line which is about 2-3' in front of the ball, you keep the right arm straightening well past impact and promote a more active pivot.

Does it help the average golfer to create more power and a sufficiently forward swing bottom? Oh, yeah. You bet your ass it does.

 

[carland]

Brian, similar question to post no. 185. How would you change "Confessions of a Former Flipper' based on this new information?

 

[mew09]

It is a straightening of the right arm which would allow you to move the handle farther from you as you begin the downswing.


disagree

 

[Tophdad]

FATS - Freddie

Another example showing (perhaps) the no force across the shaft at impact? That right arm isn't driving anything through . . .

Fred Couples Secret! - YouTube

 

[Jwat]

A few weeks ago I was working on the fiddle move and absolutley just couldn't do it. Now that this new information has been released I figured out why I couln't make that move. For me, my right wrist has to play a more active role from the start of the DS. After some practice, I visualized casting a fishing rod behind me. With a little assistance from the pivot it is much easier to square up at impact.

Yesterday I was hitting 3/4 punch shots only 5-10 yards behind my full swing. Punching my driver around 270 yards. It was crazy!

And guess what? It was the first time I was actually able to lower my trajectory. Who would have thought?

 

[carland]

I think the Australian pro referred to earlier in the thread is Peter Croker. He suggests throwing the clubhead at the ball as fast and as early with your hands as you can to start the downswing. Is this similar to "closing the gap"?

 

[Jwat]

I think as long as he is teaching the hands to move away from the target at the same time.

 

[spktho]

similar question to post no. 185.

Michael,
+3. Being a former flipper with clubface issues, where is the line drawn between flipping and not, or is it?

The pivot has to play a role in it, but as Brian posted earlier you don't need to "pivot like crazy".

 

[bgoodyear]

Possible MJ Show Part 3 Topic

3 range trips have me wondering about what is supposed to happen when you apply this tangential force from the top in the direction of the shaft point. You can either:
1. Relax the wrists which sets them deeper
2. At the time of the tangential movement, you also start the clubhead unwinding which I think is what is meant by "close the gap"
3. Try to preserve the existing wrist set angle and move everything as is

QUESTION:

If #2 is what is meant by "closing the gap" then how does this differ from casting? It sure feels to me like I'm unwinding too early and losing lag. I tend to hit the ground behind the ball this way.

 

[dschultz6072]

+4 on the flip question

 

[ffejeff224]

But by FEELING as though you are straightening your right arm in a straight line to a point on the plane line which is about 2-3' in front of the ball, you keep the right arm straightening well past impact and promote a more active pivot.

Does it help the average golfer to create more power and a sufficiently forward swing bottom? Oh, yeah. You bet your ass it does.

IMO I dissagree. If you force the right hand down towards a point in front of the ball I feel like it forces the hands down and out well into impact when they should be moving up and in. Shank city baby!

 

[lia41985]

If the weight properly fishhooks and you incorporate the fiddle and carry I feel, and Michael and Brian I'd like your thoughts, that you'd achieve the proper tangential motion. If you keep the wrists soft and get a good dump I feel like you'd be set.