The Release w/Brian Manzella & Michael Jacobs

[wulsy]

I tried some of the ideas on the range today. Doesn't work for me at all. But then again maybe I was doing it already. The best thoughts for me are just to try and hit the ball just like I have done for years. In fact it really messed me up.

It really is most relevant to the misguided victims of some of the more whacky TGM ideas which for some inexplicable reason became mainstream. Folks who realised that at least some of the TGM stuff was just bizarre and ignored it will benefit less from these ideas which are new here. But they are for sure not new.

I think that you guys should be careful how you package up this info. You can't claim to have discovered something new when it is not new and retain credibility. JMHO. Mike Austin from Guernsey seems to have known much of it decades ago. Peter Croker has been a laughing stock for decades for claiming something similar. Henry Cotton I believe said something similar, as did Big Jack. You guys shouted something else from the rooftops for years, claiming you had the secret to better golf. Ever heard the one about the boy who cried wolf?

Up till now I think you have not done a good job of representing your findings: too vague and too independent of dependent factors. This has resulted in some misinterpretation by both your competitors and your fans.

 

[faux_maestro]

Notice the super-straight left arm at the top.

Here's a couple legit questions (which will probably be ignored)........

How are you supposed to move the handle farther from your left shoulder from the top when your left arm is already straight?

And, how are you supposed to move the handle up and in sooner with the left arm straight?

Axis tilt? Throw the drunk? Don't know about the other question but this seems pretty elementary.

 

[footwedge]

I tried some of the ideas on the range today. Doesn't work for me at all. But then again maybe I was doing it already. The best thoughts for me are just to try and hit the ball just like I have done for years. In fact it really messed me up.

It really is most relevant to the misguided victims of some of the more whacky TGM ideas which for some inexplicable reason became mainstream. Folks who realised that at least some of the TGM stuff was just bizarre and ignored it will benefit less from these ideas which are new here. But they are for sure not new.

I think that you guys should be careful how you package up this info. You can't claim to have discovered something new when it is not new and retain credibility. JMHO. Mike Austin from Guernsey seems to have known much of it decades ago. Peter Croker has been a laughing stock for decades for claiming something similar. Henry Cotton I believe said something similar, as did Big Jack. You guys shouted something else from the rooftops for years, claiming you had the secret to better golf. Ever heard the one about the boy who cried wolf?

Up till now I think you have not done a good job of representing your findings: too vague and too independent of dependent factors. This has resulted in some misinterpretation by both your competitors and your fans.

Croker's method is not even close to the same.... A to B DIRECT THE CLUBHEAD DIRECTLY AT THE BALL CROSS COURT FROM THE TOP was his first concept ,sounds like aiming point , then he changed it claiming people misunderstood it. That you don't throw from the top directly at the ball the left arm has to lower first, which is it? TGM concepts interpreted his way.

Did you see the video where Brian and M.J. said that they made errors before just as everyone else has, the difference is they admit theirs. M.J. said clearly that they didn't invent or discover these things only that they are reporting them and trying to combine these findings from different sources into one source, project 1.68 and that source will be fluid and can change when new or incorrect info needs to be included or removed as required.

 

[jenhaoyen]

I love how everybody went to the range after watching this video. I hit about 300 balls hahaa

 

[carland]

I agree with post no. 223 (wow, 223 posts in one thread). Manzella and Jacobs don't say they are the first to suggest these ideas. But they did look into some ideas that they might have previously dismissed and then accepted those same ideas when the science supported it. Actually seems kind of humble, like they're are interested in learning and then pass it on to others for free.

As an aside, I went to the range this afternoon and thought of holding my side bend from the top and getting the clubhead to the ball as fast as I could. Felt like the shaft was closer to vertical at impact. Hit a lot of good shots farther than I normally do.

 

[jvswaim]

The poorly timed golfer is moving the hands and club head at a similar rate -- just like the disastrous Book Literalist idea of RHYTHM and striving to keep the club in line with the left arm. The concept of left arm and club moving at the SAME rate is the DETRIMENT!! The club head acceleration RATE should be in the fore front of the golfer's mind and not about some of these ideas I am reading form the gallery
The Book literalist idea of RHYTHM which is an 'Essential' in their world is a mess.

Lag Pressure Ideology - A WELL TIMED HIGH END PLAYER IS REPORTING NO FORCE ACROSS THE CLUB in the final stages of the downswing. Hundreds of thousands of dollars in equipment was used by the USGA and Universities to measure all forces and torques on the club, and FORCE ACROSS THE CLUB was ABSENT in the final stages as all the force was "NORMAL" or towards the golfer. Even the high end players with excessive forward lean of the club into impact REPORTED NO FORCES ACROSS THE SHAFT - THIS CLEARLY INDICATES THE HANDS ARE TRAVELING UP AND IN DURING THOSE STAGES.

If lag pressure was really present in the world class golfer there would be completely different reports and forces on the club and would indicate that the hands are traveling down and out. Lag Pressure as portrayed as a supposed 'Imperative' is a detriment. I am not throwing a book under the bus I am simply reporting, a book that was easily updateable to match new ideas has been ruined by those who call it infallible. Those are the people who do a disservice to the author, not people like myself who called for new updates. This is why we have left that world and no longer participate in those discussions and have removed those wrappers from our instruction.

Aren't you an GSEM or at least GSEB? And you say these things about Rhythm??? How the hell could you be an AI?

A well timed golfer DOES have the club and hands moving at the same rate, EXCEPT IN THE RELEASE INTERVAL. It's your misconception of RHYTHM that's a mess. After the wrist has uncocked and Throwout begins, the hands and club should again move at the same rate - you want the plane of the left flying wedge to warp by bending the left wrist? Or maybe the LFW is invalid now?

And now you're saying what Homer said 40 yrs ago - ideally the only force on the shaft in a SWING is longitudinal, i.e., NO FATS, and certainly in the release interval. Wow - you agree with Homer, and you pretend that you just discovered something new! The problem here is that Manzella has been selling FATS IN THE IMPACT INTERVAL on this forum on the basis of "evidence from his scientists". So which one of you two is wrong ?

And now lag pressure is no good??? Holy schit!!!

 

[Lifter]

Hand Path *Feels*

I love how everybody went to the range after watching this video. I hit about 300 balls hahaa

I'm still not grasping how to take it to the range. Maybe I need to watch these videos a couple more times, but it seems to me that they stress above all hand path.

But what do I need to exaggerate in order to achieve the desired hand path?

Imagine the following axes along three dimensions:

• Vertical axis (Face-On and DTL)
  
• Horizontal axis (Face-On)
  
• Horizontal axis (DTL)

Of these three axes, which are the highest priority, in order? I have absolutely no idea, but I'll take this stab at guessing the order of priority:

1. Feel like you are pushing your hands backward (Face-On view)
   
2. Feel like you are pushing your hands downward
   
3. Feel like you are pushing your hands behind your toes (DTL view)

Do I have this right? Are all three of these feels essential? Or are one or two of them completely unnecessary? Does this make any sense whatsoever? Just thinking out loud. Would appreciate it if anyone could try to nudge me in the right direction here.

 

[footwedge]

Aren't you an GSEM or at least GSEB? And you say these things about Rhythm??? How the hell could you be an AI?

A well timed golfer DOES have the club and hands moving at the same rate, EXCEPT IN THE RELEASE INTERVAL. It's your misconception of RHYTHM that's a mess. After the wrist has uncocked and Throwout begins, the hands and club should again move at the same rate - you want the plane of the left flying wedge to warp by bending the left wrist? Or maybe the LFW is invalid now?

And now you're saying what Homer said 40 yrs ago - ideally the only force on the shaft in a SWING is longitudinal, i.e., NO FATS, and certainly in the release interval. Wow - you agree with Homer, and you pretend that you just discovered something new! The problem here is that Manzella has been selling FATS IN THE IMPACT INTERVAL on this forum on the basis of "evidence from his scientists". So which one of you two is wrong ?

And now lag pressure is no good??? Holy schit!!!

LoL.

 

[wulsy]

M.J. said clearly that they didn't invent or discover these things only that they are reporting them and trying to combine these findings from different sources into one source, project 1.68 and that source will be fluid and can change when new or incorrect info needs to be included or removed as required.

That's the problem. What do you believe and what will be removed, renewed, adapted or newly interpreted. The boy who cried wolf: "see all that stuff I used to say, forget it. I've got someting new now, something better something more accurate".

Brian and Michael are not scientists. They are golf pros/teachers. I really don't think all the scientific stuff suits them. It like they're trying to be something they're not.

Actually seems kind of humble, like they're are interested in learning and then pass it on to others for free.

For sure they are interested in learning. Everyone here should thank them for at least giving us some of their knowledge by sending them some money, cos nothing in this life which someone has worked for should be given to others for free. On the other hand I do genuinely believe that many ideas for their research have been initiated or supported by this forum. And, anyway, when 1.68 comes out, it will sell well.

 

[footwedge]

A person/cultist that's drowning always fights the hardest just before they go under. It's hard work trying to save a drowning person they want to pull you under with them.

 

[footwedge]

That's the problem. What do you believe and what will be removed, renewed, adapted or newly interpreted. The boy who cried wolf: "see all that stuff I used to say, forget it. I've got someting new now, something better something more accurate".

Brian and Michael are not scientists. They are golf pros/teachers. I really don't think all the scientific stuff suits them. It like they're trying to be something they're not.



For sure they are interested in learning. Everyone here should thank them for at least giving us some of their knowledge by sending them some money, cos nothing in this life which someone has worked for should be given to others for free. On the other hand I do genuinely believe that many ideas for their research have been initiated or supported by this forum. And, anyway, when 1.68 comes out, it will sell well.

That's how the world works its a fluid environment, out with the things that don't work or are obsolete, you can stay with the flat worlder's or move forward, up to you.

 

[footwedge]

Just because you don't cry wolf and insist your right always, doesn't make you right does it!

 

[spktho]

I tried some of the ideas on the range today. Doesn't work for me at all. But then again maybe I was doing it already. The best thoughts for me are just to try and hit the ball just like I have done for years. In fact it really messed me up.

It really is most relevant to the misguided victims of some of the more whacky TGM ideas which for some inexplicable reason became mainstream. Folks who realised that at least some of the TGM stuff was just bizarre and ignored it will benefit less from these ideas which are new here. But they are for sure not new.

I think that you guys should be careful how you package up this info. You can't claim to have discovered something new when it is not new and retain credibility. JMHO. Mike Austin from Guernsey seems to have known much of it decades ago. Peter Croker has been a laughing stock for decades for claiming something similar. Henry Cotton I believe said something similar, as did Big Jack. You guys shouted something else from the rooftops for years, claiming you had the secret to better golf. Ever heard the one about the boy who cried wolf?

Up till now I think you have not done a good job of representing your findings: too vague and too independent of dependent factors. This has resulted in some misinterpretation by both your competitors and your fans.

You probably already were doing it. Let's not forget that every golfer does not need all the information for their swing. I'm pretty sure revolutionary means turning things around--even if what gets turned around has been that way before. Getting the hands forward, getting a lot of lag, and a forward leaning shaft at impact is still very big concepts in modern golf instruction, and not only in the methodologies.

Michael and Brian are now presenting their findings with scientific backed evidence. They are not the ones discovering this information. They are the ones bringing the information to the golfing world backed by empirical evidence.

On a side note, hope all is well with Michael, his family and the rest of the people in the path of hurricane Irene. It may be a while to get any responses on this thread from Michael as mother nature doesn't care how you release the golf club.

 

[wulsy]

I'm not a flat worlder by any manner. If I was I wouldn't be the golfer I am today: shit f#king hot. I've changed so many ideas over the years based on your accurate statement that the way of the world is that things move on fluidly: out with the things that don't work in with the things that do.

That's not what I was talking about though. If you read my post accurately you will see that.

 

[wulsy]

You probably already were doing it. Let's not forget that every golfer does not need all the information for their swing. I'm pretty sure revolutionary means turning things around--even if what gets turned around has been that way before. Getting the hands forward, getting a lot of lag, and a forward leaning shaft at impact is still very big concepts in modern golf instruction, and not only in the methodologies.

Michael and Brian are now presenting there findings with scientific backed evidence. They are not the ones discovering this information. They are the ones bringing the information to the golfing world backed by empirical evidence.

On a side note, hope all is well with Michael, his family and the rest of the people in the path of hurricane Irene. It may be a while to get any responses on this thread from Michael as mother nature doesn't care how you release the golf club.

Good post. For sure, it's horses for courses in golf instruction. One man's meat is another man's poison.

Only thing is, I'm not so sure they have the empirical evidence. After all, they haven't been teaching this for very long, if at all.

 

[dschultz6072]

So really Freddie Couples is the mechanical wonder of the golf swing world now? Perfect execution?

 

[footwedge]

I'm not a flat worlder by any manner. If I was I wouldn't be the golfer I am today: shit f#king hot. I've changed so many ideas over the years based on your accurate statement that the way of the world is that things move on fluidly: out with the things that don't work in with the things that do.

That's not what I was talking about though. If you read my post accurately you will see that.

I read it and the flat worlder comment was not directed at you it just went with the overall statement of how things change. Even though I used your post to make that point it wasn't made to you directly, sorry about that.

 

[ffejeff224]

A well timed golfer DOES have the club and hands moving at the same rate, EXCEPT IN THE RELEASE INTERVAL. It's your misconception of RHYTHM that's a mess. After the wrist has uncocked and Throwout begins, the hands and club should again move at the same rate - you want the plane of the left flying wedge to warp by bending the left wrist? Or maybe the LFW is invalid now?

Umm.... do you know anything about physics?

 

[Michael Finney]

angst, angst, and more angst......love it

 

[wulsy]

Who is jvswaim in real life BTW?