The Release w/Brian Manzella & Michael Jacobs

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jenhaoyen

jenhaoyen

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footwedge said:
Have no idea what your talking about, my eyes are wide open LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY I AGREE WITH YOU!!!!!
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Not to mention, I have helped countless golfers with the knowledge I gain from this forum.

hi 5.

For instance this high school kids who's hitting really good but wasn't there yet. I told him to swing dem arms like noodles.

320 within the next 5 min.

I think Brian is on the right track. I admire his goals of teaching.

This is what a regular teacher would do
1. Change your entire swing, grip blah blah blah blah
2. Lets take 1 year to get better

Brian
1. Stick with your swing
2. minor surgery.
3. ok we are done here folks.


Because he knows, that changing your entire swing is like destroying your natural instinct.

It's like telling somebody to write with their left hand for the right handers.

COME ON FOLKS!

I'm just saying.

I'ts like those youtube comments on Phil Mickelson.

"oh he should have ground his club higher, or make his body more open"

Come on, really? He's in PGA TOUR, who won a lot of tournament. You should'n't say anything unless you are better than him.


Just like a lot of people who complain about Brian or MJ's opinon.

They are doing real research, while you are googling Hank Haney's method.

PLEASE, make this stop.
 
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footwedge

New member
jenhaoyen said:
Not to mention, I have helped countless golfers with the knowledge I gain from this forum.

hi 5.

For instance this high school kids who's hitting really good but wasn't there yet. I told him to swing dem arms like noodles.

320 within the next 5 min.
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Nice! it's a good place to be. I'm more selfish I try not to tell anyone about this forum and what i learn here so I have a better chance to take their money...lol.
 
jenhaoyen

jenhaoyen

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footwedge said:
Nice! it's a good place to be. I'm more selfish I try not to tell anyone about this forum and what i learn here so I have a better chance to take their money...lol.
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after i told him about some stuff, I had to buy him beer for the next 4 weeks.

But it's all good, because it makes me want to be better.

haha
 
S

spktho

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otto6457 said:
Oh lord...........

Nope, that's not a swing I've ever contemplated...let alone attempt.
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Definitely not to that extent. But, even striving for the flat left wrist impact position could lead to negative torque or a holding on which affects how the club head is released, which may be less than optimal...
 
D

dbl

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Jen, you ain't really buying the high schooler beers. But good on ya to help him.

Meanwhile, stop taking the caffeine pills. Brian and MJ have had 37000 views and not too much hate I think. :)
 
hp12c

hp12c

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mgranato said:
How are people supposed to know you know it all if you don't tell everyone you know it all? The fact that "Already Knew It Guy" tells you he already knew it after the fact is immaterial. Sometimes he doesn't even realize he already knew it until someone makes the discovery to remind him he already knew it.
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Funny sh#$ dude.
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

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ej20 said:
Dariusz J,what would you call this release?Slap roll?The right wrist flattens at impact but the left doesn't hinge but stays flat and rolls.

K.J. Choi Six Iron Swing - YouTube
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Looks like a push release since the clubhead stays square to the arc and does not add loft until later in the follow through. Anticipating your question - Cotton distinguished only 3 release types depending on what happens with clubface vertically and horizontally.
I personally believe that this is the best classification ever done as for release phenomenon. Ultimately, what matters is the clubface relationship to the ball in the impact zone.

Cheers
 
B

BIGBALL

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otto6457 said:
Does it make me an absolute moron if I have no idea what the heck is being explained?

It seems like this stuff is important and there are obviously some people with horses in the race that don't like the idea that their horse might be finishing dead last.

But I have no idea if it's important for me.

Is their any real reason for me to understand this new release or is it something that I'll have to have demonstrated in person to grasp?

Call me dense if you must...but this stuff just confuses the heck out of me.
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I wouldn't call you dense Otto! I actually am very intelligent, but I absolutely agree that
I just want to be shown the best, most efficient way for ME to swing the club. I do think it's critical for the instructors to know these "new" findings, and moreso how to teach it, so they can get me in the best position to get the most out of my game. And I am confident that the Manzellas and Jacobs, etc. will be more than able to do just that!
 
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ej20

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Dariusz J. said:
Looks like a push release since the clubhead stays square to the arc and does not add loft until later in the follow through. Anticipating your question - Cotton distinguished only 3 release types depending on what happens with clubface vertically and horizontally.
I personally believe that this is the best classification ever done as for release phenomenon. Ultimately, what matters is the clubface relationship to the ball in the impact zone.

Cheers
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I don't think so as Cotton did not have the benefit of fast shutter speed slow motion video in his day.

The fact is there are numerous possibilities for releases.The right wrist staying bent or flat through impact.The left wrist bending or staying flat through impact.The wrists rolling or not through impact.If you're swing is more torso rotational based,your arms will cross over later.If you take all the permutations and combinations of these factors there are more than 3 release types.

The release type that I see most on tour is the flattening(slapping) right wrist,flat or very slightly bent and rolling left wrist and a late crossover.
 
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ej20

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ej20 said:
I don't think so as Cotton did not have the benefit of fast shutter speed slow motion video in his day.

The fact is there are numerous possibilities for releases.The right wrist staying bent or flat through impact.The left wrist bending or staying flat through impact.The wrists rolling or not through impact.If you're swing is more torso rotational based,your arms will cross over later.If you take all the permutations and combinations of these factors there are more than 3 release types.

The release type that I see most on tour is the flattening(slapping) right wrist,flat or very slightly bent and rolling left wrist and a late crossover.
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Oh and check out my big brain. :)
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

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ej20 said:
I don't think so as Cotton did not have the benefit of fast shutter speed slow motion video in his day.

The fact is there are numerous possibilities for releases.The right wrist staying bent or flat through impact.The left wrist bending or staying flat through impact.The wrists rolling or not through impact.If you're swing is more torso rotational based,your arms will cross over later.If you take all the permutations and combinations of these factors there are more than 3 release types.

The release type that I see most on tour is the flattening(slapping) right wrist,flat or very slightly bent and rolling left wrist and a late crossover.
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What you're describing are options what happens with wrists separately and/or forearms. A lot depends, among others, on the grip and relation between both hands to each other. I would like to see a new classification based on the above with pleasure, the more it will involve anatomy.

Now, what I was trying to describe quoting Cotton's terms is relation of the clubhead to the ball in the impact zone - either it stays square (push) or accelerates on a vertical plane (slap-hinge) or accelerates on a horizontal plane (crossover). The biomechanic phenomena (such as hinging, cocking or supinating) are just symptoms of what happens while performing each of the distinguished types.

Cheers
 
Virtuoso

Virtuoso

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Dariusz J. said:
What you're describing are options what happens with wrists separately and/or forearms. A lot depends, among others, on the grip and relation between both hands to each other. I would like to see a new classification based on the above with pleasure, the more it will involve anatomy.

Now, what I was trying to describe quoting Cotton's terms is relation of the clubhead to the ball in the impact zone - either it stays square (push) or accelerates on a vertical plane (slap-hinge) or accelerates on a horizontal plane (crossover). The biomechanic phenomena (such as hinging, cocking or supinating) are just symptoms of what happens while performing each of the distinguished types.

Cheers
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When talking about the release in general, or the specific release type, it would be my contention that a lot of what the hands and forearms do in the impact zone has been decided beforehand. Impact, for the most part is a "blur."

Now, I would add the caveat that some elements of the release could be potentially affected reasonably late, and those would be the motions that are least influenced by the external forces acting on the club coming into impact.

So, you might have a chance to manually act on the rotation of the club along it's longitudinal cg (its "spin" axis) because the MOI there is much, much smaller than the axis of rotation relating to the un-hinging of the club.

Bottom line for me, you may be able to "monitor" closure rate relatively late, but not the angle between the left arm and shaft.

That was the whole reason for my "hacker closing the gap" post. The unhinging is directly related to SEQUENCE, ie, proper sequence early. After the hands have travelled down about a foot or so in the downswing, the unhinging party is over. Your master is that huge MOI you just created with the given sequence.
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
Virtuoso said:
When talking about the release in general, or the specific release type, it would be my contention that a lot of what the hands and forearms do in the impact zone has been decided beforehand. Impact, for the most part is a "blur."

Now, I would add the caveat that some elements of the release could be potentially affected reasonably late, and those would be the motions that are least influenced by the external forces acting on the club coming into impact.

So, you might have a chance to manually act on the rotation of the club along it's longitudinal cg (its "spin" axis) because the MOI there is much, much smaller than the axis of rotation relating to the un-hinging of the club.
Bottom line for me, you may be able to "monitor" closure rate relatively late, but not the angle between the left arm and shaft.

That was the whole reason for my "hacker closing the gap" post. The unhinging is directly related to SEQUENCE, ie, proper sequence early. After the hands have travelled down about a foot or so in the downswing, the unhinging party is over. Your master is that huge MOI you just created with the given sequence.
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A very good post. I agree with every sentence, especially bold ones (my choice). This is why, I believe, typical crossover release must be conscious in a big percentage of shots and, thus, requiring a lot of abilities of dealing with timing.
Besides, taking into account a popular old myth that the forearms rollover gives power to the swing while natural unhinging is 'crucified' - no odd that there are so many crossover release players with the lead wrist ulnarily deviated and not flexed. Too bad that the instruction does not pay attention that these guys on Tour are great athletes with an exceptional talent of dealing with timing issues (albeit not all and not with all clubs).
When you see the big picture being supported by true science, everything looks very simple.

Cheers
 
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