johnnymarlboro
New
Looks like Player to me.
The Release w/Brian Manzella & Michael Jacobs
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Dariusz J.
New member
Really do you think so ? I see Player with considerably bigger width than the rest of the group. The above pics show max. gap between players' rear shoulder and their hands on the grip.
Kevin is right.
Cheers
Damon Lucas
Super Moderator
Looks like Nicklaus has more thoracic rotation in these pictures towards the target, which would give the appearance that Player has more width.
birdie_man
New
Couple (or more) of coupling point Qs..aka couple like Couples, et all
"Swing the coupling point"? W the hands?
If throwout action (via non human forces) is not enough to "square things up at the bottom"..
..that must mean the golfer has to do it w their connection to the club. (through their hands)
But good players have no lag pressure at impact?
Does the golfer do 123 in the ds?:
1. push fwd on the bottom of the grip w the low hand.
2. push backward on the top end of the grip w the high hand.
3. be done pushing in time for impact, "coasting" through impact, thusly having no lag pressure at impact.
For a downswing thought, is it enough to think about hitting up w the hands (even w clubhead hitting down on ball) & starting the flick from the top?
It seems a lot like a wristshot, or like flicking dirt into the air w a broom. It is interesting.
Thanks for the info Brian & Mike. Looking forward to trying it out.
"Swing the coupling point"? W the hands?
If throwout action (via non human forces) is not enough to "square things up at the bottom"..
..that must mean the golfer has to do it w their connection to the club. (through their hands)
But good players have no lag pressure at impact?
Does the golfer do 123 in the ds?:
1. push fwd on the bottom of the grip w the low hand.
2. push backward on the top end of the grip w the high hand.
3. be done pushing in time for impact, "coasting" through impact, thusly having no lag pressure at impact.
For a downswing thought, is it enough to think about hitting up w the hands (even w clubhead hitting down on ball) & starting the flick from the top?
It seems a lot like a wristshot, or like flicking dirt into the air w a broom. It is interesting.
Thanks for the info Brian & Mike. Looking forward to trying it out.
azcrlyglfpro
New
Whew.. hit the easy button on that thread...
Whew..Finally finished that thread, only 3:00 am here on the west coast, thanks to Brian and Michael for helping me let go of flat wrist and forward shaft lean, aim point ect.. cant wait to get to the tee in the morn. This explains so much in my own game and I feel a lot of regret for what I have been passing on to my students as law. I second the acknowledgment of Dr. Grober's research, you guys are helping connect the dots that the scientists have laid out for us.
I found many parallels to the coupling point concept, what some call the fulcrum point. Again, thank you gentleman, you have set a great example in your search for science based instruction, more of us golf pro's should take notice and let go of the fear of evolving our knowledge.
Christopher Curley PGA
Whew..Finally finished that thread, only 3:00 am here on the west coast, thanks to Brian and Michael for helping me let go of flat wrist and forward shaft lean, aim point ect.. cant wait to get to the tee in the morn. This explains so much in my own game and I feel a lot of regret for what I have been passing on to my students as law. I second the acknowledgment of Dr. Grober's research, you guys are helping connect the dots that the scientists have laid out for us.
I found many parallels to the coupling point concept, what some call the fulcrum point. Again, thank you gentleman, you have set a great example in your search for science based instruction, more of us golf pro's should take notice and let go of the fear of evolving our knowledge.
Christopher Curley PGA
scorekeeper
New member
UMMM...if i didn't know better....nah.....he wouldn't do that.....HMMM
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Ok....back on topic....
This pic says a lot:
This pic says a lot:
Michael Jacobs
Super Moderator
Part 3 of the show will be up very soon...
azcrlyglfpro
New
do what?
Sorry new to the forum, what exactly did I do thats outta line?
Sorry new to the forum, what exactly did I do thats outta line?
Virtuoso
New
The "hands away move" is about pulling slack out of the system--just like a Baseball pitcher would. Being super wide but inducing slack would be much worse than being narrow with no slack.
Curly, your first post (I assume) post 707 was great. I didn't see edited out posts, but here at Brian's forum, there's no or very little discussion of other instructors. In this thread in particular, which as you say correctly is Brian and Michael bring science out of the scientists' den and out to the realm of golf instruction, there oughtn't be a distraction off of the core topic and Brian/Michael.
Dariusz J.
New member
No doubt. I wonder what may create the situation of being super wide but inducing slack other than bad sequencing and erroneous intentional motion.
Cheers
Virtuoso
New
I think both of those would do nicely to be wide and slack-full
azcrlyglfpro
New
Ahhh..
Sorry I guess I broke the rules, I had read multiple posts where Michael stated that the coupling point had not been discussed elsewhere, it immediately made me think of what I had heard referred to as the "fulcrum point" ... I will try my best to be good in the future having everything in have learned in the past "blown up" has been enlightening to say the least. Thank you again.
P.S. Took this thread to the range today and absolutely striped it, big fun...
Christopher Curley PGA
Sorry I guess I broke the rules, I had read multiple posts where Michael stated that the coupling point had not been discussed elsewhere, it immediately made me think of what I had heard referred to as the "fulcrum point" ... I will try my best to be good in the future having everything in have learned in the past "blown up" has been enlightening to say the least. Thank you again.
P.S. Took this thread to the range today and absolutely striped it, big fun...
Christopher Curley PGA
Noreaster
New
I went to the range today and tried out the concepts laid down by MJ & Brian. The early results are very nice! The swing feels free and powerful. The follow thru sees my right foot up on the toe (a first) and I have posted up nicely on the left leg. The only thing I have done is move the butt end of the club away from the target to start the downswing and from their I just focus on closing the gap as quick as possible. My divots are ahead of the ball and perfect. Again, this is in the early stages but so far so good. I find this concept pretty easy to grasp and as I said very effective thus far. The reason is, I think, as a result of my earlier forays into the swing.
I’M an average player at best with minimal swing knowledge but I want to learn more to better my game. My first foray into golf was via the Ernest Jones/ Manuel De La Torre school of thought ( hence my comment in an earlier reply). In these formative years I had a very nice swing that was effortless and powerful. I think the reason for this is Torre exposes the start of the downswing with the arms (point between elbow and shoulder) and I sort of unknowingly developed the action at the top that MJ is now discussing. Unfortunately, like so many others in the Jones/Torre school I ended up developing a nasty flip ( due to a lack of concise info) which in turn lead me down TGM circles. I ended up here on Brian’s site because I like so many others experienced a good deal of frustration trying to incorporate forward shaft lean into my swing and the results were not good. I got Brian’s videos and they helped out a great deal with my swing and understanding of it. I have a few questions regarding Brian’s teachings and where they are heading:
1) How does this effect the info contained in your videos Brian? What would you change about them now with this developing information? Is the pivot driven swing on the way out?
2) How would you incorporate this new discovery into shorter shots such as chip & pitch shots?
3) Would the length of shaft in any way have an effect on ‘closing the gap?’
Sorry if these seem like basic ‘hack‘ questions but I will not nor will I ever elude to being an expert on the golf swing.
I’M an average player at best with minimal swing knowledge but I want to learn more to better my game. My first foray into golf was via the Ernest Jones/ Manuel De La Torre school of thought ( hence my comment in an earlier reply). In these formative years I had a very nice swing that was effortless and powerful. I think the reason for this is Torre exposes the start of the downswing with the arms (point between elbow and shoulder) and I sort of unknowingly developed the action at the top that MJ is now discussing. Unfortunately, like so many others in the Jones/Torre school I ended up developing a nasty flip ( due to a lack of concise info) which in turn lead me down TGM circles. I ended up here on Brian’s site because I like so many others experienced a good deal of frustration trying to incorporate forward shaft lean into my swing and the results were not good. I got Brian’s videos and they helped out a great deal with my swing and understanding of it. I have a few questions regarding Brian’s teachings and where they are heading:
1) How does this effect the info contained in your videos Brian? What would you change about them now with this developing information? Is the pivot driven swing on the way out?
2) How would you incorporate this new discovery into shorter shots such as chip & pitch shots?
3) Would the length of shaft in any way have an effect on ‘closing the gap?’
Sorry if these seem like basic ‘hack‘ questions but I will not nor will I ever elude to being an expert on the golf swing.
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
Here is a list of my current for sale videos:
Confessions of a Former Flipper (1.0) How Ben Doyle taught me to have the flattest left wrist in golf:
It is a video feature my take on what Ben taught me. It works so well, I have trouble bending my wrist on purpose.
Building Blocks (beta): The next version (2.0) will be about how I teach people not to flip. It will be very different for many reasons, the biggest being that I have learned a BUNCH in the last 6 and half years since I did that video.
How I taught large group beginners and folks who were not beginners per se, but wanted to go back and learn from the "beginning." It was revolutionary in how it could (and can) get folks up to speed in a short amount of time.
Never Slice Again (2.0): I have waited to do the 1.0 version for quite a while, but it will be the next video produced. May have a different name.
The best video on the subject of all time. It works.
Never Hook Again (2.0): Next version (3.0) will focus on EXACTLY what I want in 3D and on TrackMan. All the "pattern" videos will have this info. Having said that, it will be better, and will be the standard in that subject.
It is a pattern video. It is a brilliant compilation of ideas, feels, and positioning that was my first completely original take on a way to swing a club.
The Soft Draw Pattern (1.0): The 3.0 version will be tweaked ever so sightly, and the 3D and TrackMan info will be included.
Turns out I was on to something, huh?
The 2.0 version will be tweak ever so sightly, and the 3D and TrackMan info will be included.
The project 1.68 info will be all over the next set of videos.
The Manzella Matrox Short Game video was never officially released because I knew it was incomplete information. But the "mid sole" pitch was right on the money, but the how was not exactly known. It is now.
The folks who went to the Lake Presidential school last month got some of the new stuff.
Yup.
Even PING MAN 6, closes the gap differently as the club gets longer. The RATE of pivot accel changes dramatically. It gets slower as the clubs get longer.
Brian,
It's great to observe you approach. Particularly, using real science to move forward - and that set you aside. Most important, you did not to park on one a level of knowledge, regarding your teaching, but were able to continue to improve. It's like Apple - this was great but I know that there will be new breakthroughs.
Thanks to you and your team - these things does not happen without great peers.
Odd, MSc.
It's great to observe you approach. Particularly, using real science to move forward - and that set you aside. Most important, you did not to park on one a level of knowledge, regarding your teaching, but were able to continue to improve. It's like Apple - this was great but I know that there will be new breakthroughs.
Thanks to you and your team - these things does not happen without great peers.
Odd, MSc.
Brian, in the youtube Episode 5 video, around 12:30-14:00 you are quite critical of early releasers. You even mention one student (no name) in Louisville with no power.
What is the difference between closing the gap and releasing early? My thought is that the early releaser you were describing is mistimed and acting as if the ball is very right of where it is in reality, so in effect he closed the gap and then was "done" while only half way down. Can you clarify? Is this an error in athleticism, that closing the gap at the ball requires the thought of smacking the ball NOT performing some weird stunt with our clubhead and arms? Thanks.
Eta; Note, you do say around 14:48 that Nicklaus was able to get the clubshaft up his left arm at impact for several good reasons. So the criticism of the early release...would focus on what exactly? I think that distinction might be good to read from you.
What is the difference between closing the gap and releasing early? My thought is that the early releaser you were describing is mistimed and acting as if the ball is very right of where it is in reality, so in effect he closed the gap and then was "done" while only half way down. Can you clarify? Is this an error in athleticism, that closing the gap at the ball requires the thought of smacking the ball NOT performing some weird stunt with our clubhead and arms? Thanks.
Eta; Note, you do say around 14:48 that Nicklaus was able to get the clubshaft up his left arm at impact for several good reasons. So the criticism of the early release...would focus on what exactly? I think that distinction might be good to read from you.
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