Lindsey Newman
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No, I meant exactly what I wrote. Target line
The Release w/Brian Manzella & Michael Jacobs
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No, I meant exactly what I wrote. Target line
ok, maybe all this will be easier to understand with a simpler frame of reference ... if, from the (right-handed) golfer's perspective there is an imagined clock face on the ground with the ball being roughly at 12 o'clock and with 9 o'clock to the golfer's left (the target side) and with 3 o'clock to the golfer's right (away from the target) and with 6 o'clock to the golfer's backside behind him (away from the target line) how should the hands (and coupling point) move from the start of the downswing all the way to impact? thanks.
Lindsey Newman
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Definitely later than 3 because the hands hit low point before noon. Remember nothing should go towards the TARGET at start down so anything going at the TARGET LINE is effectively going forward and being pulled towards the target. That is why I said the camera is deceiving. The hands work away, but the hand path initially goes away from both the target line and the target to reach low point earlier and not be dragged.
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wow, ok ... so if i have this right the hands should move AWAY from BOTH the TARGET and TARGET LINE at the start of the downswing (4 o'clock or so?) and from Brian's video of Sergio the clubhead should be deeper (behind) than the hands from the DTL perspective at least roughly until the shaft is parallel to the ground. Now is this analysis correct for both the Hogan/Sergio and Nicklaus/Toms/Gahm models in their optimized forms and is there a consensus about the OTT from the inside that Dariusz describes? thanks.
BertramSterling
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Brian Manzella
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willgolfer
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The 3 vids by Michael Jacobs and 1 by Brian aren't good enough for ya?
I'm hitting the ball great utilizing this concept....and my one shank per round and occasional shanks on the range are gonzo (knock on wood).
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All other measurements being equal and the player "steepens" his AOA, dynamic loft would be lower, wouldn't it?
My point in all of this was to get some explanation for the phenomena reported by Brian:Tour players are de-lofting the club, yet their hand path is up and in after the hands pass the right thigh. How do they do it? Anybody?
Lindsey Newman
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A lot of what you're asking is subjective. Remember there is no model. However a player lines up/aims and other factors including, but not limited to ball position, trajectory choice have a significant effect. If you know the hand path is working up before impact for optimized AoA, squaring and forward lean the you can fit the "start down" moves to which ever model you prescribe.
How do they do it if forces are normal to the player at impact?
natep
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I'm confused about this. IIRC, there was a guy who posted his swing a while back and he was doing that (dropping hands down and back), and Brian came in the thread and told him it was gonna be big trouble (he was the guy who insisted he wanted to learn TGM hitting, I think)
. Maybe this stuff is brand new and Brian was wrong back then?EDIT: I found this of Duval, is this what you mean needs to happen?
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The hands and clubhead move out away from the golfer in the early downswing.
So what does "out away" mean in relation to the target and the target line? Thanks.
Jwat
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I'm confused about this. I'm not seeing any good players who are moving the butt of the club away from the target line at startdown (from dtl). IIRC, there was a guy who posted his swing a while back and he was doing that (dropping hands down and back), and Brian came in the thread and told him it was gonna be big trouble (he was the guy who insisted he wanted to learn TGM hitting, I think)
How can you say that with all the video of the greats posted by BManz and Mike?
natep
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What videos of the greats? I understood it to mean the club moved away from target, not target line. I just edited my post to include a Duval swing where he moves his hands down and back. So is is this what has to happen, a concave/convex hand path (I'm not sure which is which, or maybe its neither?
)? What about the Sergio markup he did, Sergio had a straight line hand path to low point.
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natep
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Away from the target line, not the target. I can see if the butt of the club gets pulled left at startdown from dtl. Lindsay wrote that the club needs to go away from the target line at startdown (left from a dtl view), thats what I'm confused about.
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