The Release w/Brian Manzella & Michael Jacobs

[grahler]

Someone said speak up in regards to left shoulder-what I said is distance from left hand to shoulder really doesn't change much.
I think the whole release thing with low point of hands where video said is true.
I just know for myself my feel is right hand pressure down and out-the result is a release exactly like what guy said low point of hands first.
Since distance to left shoulder is basically fixed the feel is swinging down but the reality is what has been shown to be true.
I love the feel for me in my own game of downward forwards pressure without stalling the shoulders because I pretty much can't hit fat this way. For me the handle points pretty much towards my belly button definitely NOT exaggerated hands forward-thats a slice/pinch/smother move-the shaft releases it is not driven forward in a linear fashion.
I think the shallowing effect is largely based on position of left shoulder is all...The great thing is the length of left arm is basically fixed this allows confidence in a full release for me.

 

[Brian Manzella]

No it isn't - when you direct pp#3 at an aiming point(the ball) on the target line from the Top, it arcs off quickly as the hands go to release point even on a max trigger delay snap release. There's no such thing as a straight line delivery path. The LFW moves off-plane and the hands move up and in as Throw Out delivers the sweetspot to the ball. It's just as true today as when Ben Doyle taught you this yrs ago.

No.

No.

and NO.

The hands should NEVER go to the ball PERIOD.

THROW OUT will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER square the club up by itself.

Gollygee.....

 

[wulsy]

The thing about this is: its just so f~ing OBVIOUS! How some of these guys can come on an dispute it is just insane.

It was always this way and always will be. Get over the book and open your eyes. BTW, did anyone here ever meet the book author? Probably not. Maybe he was not very bright and just wrote a book full of untruths and inaccuracies which some guys later publicised and turned it into some kind of "bible"? who knows for sure?

 

[Brian Manzella]

This is about getting it right.

NOT about discrediting anyone.

My dad probably told me all sorts of incorrect things. I worship the ground he walked on.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Are you saying post-secret Hogan didn't pivot hard? Show me a video on youtube.

And would you translate "Hogan pivoted really hard without proper unintentional kinetics in awe to kill the ball" into English please?

Where am I saying that post-secret Hogan did not pivot really hard ??? Another shadow that puts words into my mouth ? Geez...I just said that (confirmed that) pre-secret pivoted really hard (that did not save him from being like Bubba, Woods or Mickelson...rofl).

Well...I can write a long response but I won't. It's enough to say in archaic TGM language - PCH vs. HCP. The kinetic sequence should never be dependent on distal parts unless one has a supernatural talent to deal with timing in our 4-D reality.

Cheers

 

[ZAP]

This is about getting it right.

NOT about discrediting anyone.

My dad probably told me all sorts of incorrect things. I worship the ground he walked on.

I don't know why but that post made the hair on my arms stand up. Possibly because it was the pure truth.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Dariusz J.,

The concept of swinging a club head with your hands is certainly not new.

This doesn't mean that Ernest Jones left out a bunch. Or any number of other folks.

Jim Flick of all people, said the body will respond to the "swing." He got 200 other things wrong, just like everyone.

Bob Toski KNOWS, but it never comes out exactly right.

The body doesn't need much attention, and that 25% power boost just isn't big of a deal if you can't "line it up."

BTW, YOU ARE CORRECT, POST WRECK HOGAN WAS BETTER.

 

[Dariusz J.]

It must have been better because every possible statistics (with crappy putting, ESPECIALLY) confirms it. There are a lot 'Hogan experts' in the net today, but the vast majority is pathetic. And it is enough to read Hogan's publications carefully as well as observe his actions.
I have a strange feeling that your work misses a lot of targets because of unability to think independently on false authorities. As Metallica would sing - "Sad but True" LOL.

Cheers

 

[peterjthomps]

BINGO!!! Close that gap!!!

I wouldn't recommend a kinematic sequence concept to a backswing, I would recommend seeing it as geared together

Brian/Mike: can one of you explain what it means to close the gap? Thanks

 

[wulsy]

The body doesn't need much attention, and that 25% power boost just isn't big of a deal if you can't "line it up."

Depends who you're talking about, right? Guys with already pretty good pivot don't need to think too much about it I would guess. BUT a poor pivot=bad body positions=not much chance to "line it all up", right?

 

[Todd Dugan]

Only in case of a golfer without rear arm which makes all of this academic unnecessary dispute. There is no independent lead arm movement when the rear hand is on the grip. Simple as this.

Cheers

Nope. I can reproduce the swing of the left arm from its socket with my right hand attached to the left. I demonstrate this all the time to my students as I explain exactly what the right arm must do to allow it.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Nope. I can reproduce the swing of the left arm from its socket with my right hand attached to the left. I demonstrate this all the time to my students as I explain exactly what the right arm must do to allow it.

Nah. It's what you think, not what you physically do. If your students benefit - OK. Placebo effect. If shoulder joints were close to each other and don't need hard structure fragments (clavicles and sternum) to cooperate to function simultaneously - perhaps, yes. But the anatomical reality is different. Shoulder joints are apart, most distal parts are together. Your version would suit geometry but not anatomical reality of a human.
Do an experiment - draw a line FO during downswing covering your lead shoulder. You can't cheat anatomy or physics.

Cheers

 

[burners]

Tom Tomasello

Isn't there an Australian guy who has been teaching this for years, and has been ridiculed by many for advocating a pushing action in the downswing?

Yes. He's posted here before.

However, Tom Tomasello was the first instructor I heard who was advocating these ideas. Is this current information significantly different? Maybe he deserves a plug here? The Austrialian Guy thought very highly of him.

TT really explained the release the same way Nicklaus did. It's good stuff.

 

[jvswaim]

No.

No.

and NO.

The hands should NEVER go to the ball PERIOD.

THROW OUT will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER square the club up by itself.

Gollygee.....

PP #3 does. You must think the sweetspot rotates around the shaft. Almost at the moment of release, the shaft starts rotating around the sweetspot and the hands start moving inside, and since PP #3 is way down in front of the hands, they will move inside. And, you must think Throwout is left arm rotation. It's the LFW moving off-plane. If you do believe those two things, then it's no wonder you think the hands should start way inside the target line. And would also explain why you believe in stalling the pivot, preempting real Throwout, with some notion of snapping the kinetic chain, and requiring an overswivel of the left forearm for phoney Throwout.

 

[Lindsey Newman]

That proves you don't have the body control to keep your right shoulder from going outward instead of driving down plane!

What plane? Wow! You are really late to the party.

 

[jvswaim]

What plane? Wow! You are really late to the party.

You've spent too much time partying and not enough on the practice tee!

 

[Dariusz J.]

You've spent too much time partying and not enough on the practice tee!

That's actually very funny since there are theories that require thousands of repetitions and zillions of range hours - IMO, they should be labelled as the worst.
People like to be masochists and do worthless things in the name of feeling that their money were spent well ROFL. Like flagellants in medieval Genova LOL.

Cheers

 

[Kevin Shields]

Isn't there an Australian guy who has been teaching this for years, and has been ridiculed by many for advocating a pushing action in the downswing?

Yes, and an English guy who said hit hard with the clubhead using the right and and a puck release...and a Long Islander who wrote that the hands go away from the target at the top. Lots of good stuff out there. You are right.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Yes, and an English guy who said hit hard with the clubhead using the right and and a puck release...and a Long Islander who wrote that the hands go away from the target at the top. Lots of good stuff out there. You are right.

Puck release ? What is that ?

Cheers

 

[Matt 4-L]

How is this different then Hogan's hip movement forward and what he called the hand's "free ride"? Basically by moving forward with the hips you are putting a force on the hands outward (away from target) just by moving the hips and not starting down with the hands until they drop vertically. Are you saying that there should be a conscious effort to push the hands away from the target, separate from the initial pivots pressure applied?