Jeffy, what part of TGM are you referencing in "holding on"?
The Release w/Brian Manzella & Michael Jacobs
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jeffy
Banned
fronesis-
That's great! Improving is what it's all about. Glad it clicked with you. I never became "sold" on TGM, even though I greatly admired Brian's skill as a teacher, but I must say that I am surprised by how much TGM seems to have hurt players. It is great that Brian and Mike are working hard to reverse the damage. I wish their insights could have such a positive impact on my game, but I have never been a "dragger".
Take care,
Jeff
That's great! Improving is what it's all about. Glad it clicked with you. I never became "sold" on TGM, even though I greatly admired Brian's skill as a teacher, but I must say that I am surprised by how much TGM seems to have hurt players. It is great that Brian and Mike are working hard to reverse the damage. I wish their insights could have such a positive impact on my game, but I have never been a "dragger".
Take care,
Jeff
jeffy
Banned
Just watch the "midnight video".
Thanks, Jeff!
For me, it wasn't simply "handle dragging" in the classic TGM sense. It was the idea that I could or should manipulate the club head with my hands at or near impact. It was the idea that I would push or pull and add force at this time. TGM teaches this, but I think that MOST OF POPULAR golf instruction gives players the sense that they should be pushing or pulling or adding force and that they should use their hands to produce a certain "position" at impact.
That's why, for me, the idea of "going normal" is really radical. And I've read a lot of golf instruction over the years, but until MJ's first video, I really had no idea that the hands moved UP before impact. That changed my whole view of the golf swing, and it would have changed it that radically if I had learned this information before I ever heard of TGM.
jeffy
Banned
Brian, PULLEEEZE! I have no idea what you are talking about. Please, if you can, show me where you think I have stated or implied that "ANGLES in video SHOW the Kinetics".
yes, I've seen it. I just wondered what part of the book, specifically, you were referring to...?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Jeff.
Just asking....
What point have you made on this whole thread that is not in agreement with everything me and Mike have said?
jeffy
Banned
I wasn't referring to the book (what a mess). I was referring to all these TGM-followers I have seen over the years that had this great looking hands-ahead impact and couldn't break an egg. In the "midnight video", Brian and Mike confessed that they fell into that group. I thought that was very healthy.
jeffy
Banned
Don't answer a question with a question.
But since this is your site, and I like you both, I'll answer anyway.
I have stated that I think that "early releasers" on tour could benefit from more lag, and that the "optimized release" for the Midnight Golfer was consistent with this view. I don't remember you guys ever saying that anyone on tour released too early, but I haven't read the whole thread.
I also think that there is a way to create good "extreme lag", as evidenced by the extreme laggers on tour that lead the driving distance stats as well as the ballstriking stats. You guys clearly reject that idea.
I also got the sense from your posts and videos that you and Mike really liked early releasers like Jerry Kelly, Rocco Mediate and the elusive disappearing pro. It was quite a surprise that the optimized release for the Midnight Golfer had significantly more lag. You guys did not point that out.
Yep, no doubt they are unbelievably dedicated to learning and teaching. The part that makes it fair for them..... is that they know inside out what they're turning upside down.
Where did they say that lag was bad? I have only read that trying to have extreme lag, via dragging the handle, is bad. It also sounded like the golfer from the midnight thread did not increase lag by trying not to release the wrist angle, but rather by releasing from the top and utilizing the flick release.
I wouldn't be so sure that the golfers that you call early releasers on tour are trying to release the club from the top, rather are trying to retain the wrist angle or start down toward the ball to start the downswing instead of the away from the target move Brian and Michael advocate.
The wrist angle you are obsessed with is not the cause, it is the effect.
Hogan had it right, the wrist conditions, to allow the effect that Jeffy is looking for. IMO.
dschultz6072
New
How would you explain cracking a whip with a 2 handed grip at a point directly in between your feet? Both hands are trying to get the grip end of the club to line up. One must push and one must pull, otherwise one isn't doing it's fair share. Once all the work has been done to generate the speed, the rest is holding on. This is when the clubhead does its own thing.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
And then there is this little thing called SCORING.
I probably would change a handle-dragger who is lighting up TrackMan, and maybe the so called "early releasers" that you posted up are lighting it up as well.
The whole point of using the IDEA of an optimized release on this thread is to show that sometimes, an EARLIER RELEASE might make the ball go further.
The whole point of using the IDEA of an optimized release on this thread is to show that sometimes, an EARLIER RELEASE might make the ball go further.
Trying to create "extreme lag" is a bad idea in our opinion.
Winding up with it is fine.
We liked how they "lined it up."
Had nothing to do with their "release point."
The OPTIMIZED "midnight golfer" had more delay then the golfers you call "early releasers."
But here is a red letter point, my brother:
The early releasers might have been TRYING FOR more lag, and the "midnight golfer" not only put force-about-the-coupling-point EARLIER than his regular swing, it may have been earlier than say, Jerry Kelly.
Kinetics vs, Kinematics.
We are saying that.
RED LETTER ITEM.
mgranato
New
Not really. Torques need to be applied. Correct with not trying to "hold" it. It's a very dynamic active happening - you'll love it when you feel it.
But here is a red letter point, my brother:
The early releasers might have been TRYING FOR more lag, and the "midnight golfer" not only put force-about-the-coupling-point EARLIER than his regular swing, it may have been earlier than say, Jerry Kelly.
Kinetics vs, Kinematics.
We are saying that.
RED LETTER ITEM.
Lag's good, lag's bad. Early release is good, late release is good. Try to avoid lag, but if you've loads of it, well that's good as well. If you've none, thats also ok. Those who create it are actually trying to avoid it and those who have none should try to create it by trying to avoid it. Confused? I think you are.
Never have cracked a whip, the wife does that
I think I'll ask her...lol. Is the push pull in the same basic direction? Because Ying and Yang in my definition are not, their opposing.
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