TIGER
- Thread starter Ray J
- Start date
- Status
Brian Manzella
Administrator
The Foley stuff hurt his back and he never was a factor in the Majors during that time.
I am watching tomorrow and will report back.
The caddy isn't doing his job either.
I am watching tomorrow and will report back.
The caddy isn't doing his job either.
Well what was the point of using the boxer analogy of J.Louis and Marciano I thought you were referring to the age of Louis and his decline because of it? Is Tiger getting k.o'ed by Marciano/golf because of his age or exactly what is your point?
Louis was 36 years old and had been away from competitive boxing for two years. He was a shell of his former self as fights and age took their toll on him he took the fight because he owed taxes and needed the money!
How that relates to Tigers circumstances escapes me. Unless you think he should retire....I don't think he's ready for that and that's my point golf isn't close to boxing in the points that I made.
Cheers!
Last edited:
johnmerrick
New
i can't believe i'm agreeing with ray j but he's right as much as it pains me to say it.
shouldn't even mention the caddie Brian this mess is all tiger.. if you are hitting it on the range good in warm up and come out and hit it fat a bunch of times then it's between the ears.
tiger needs to see somebody that can help him control his nerves better. it's not a fluke that his first hole- in i don't know how many tournaments i lost count- he bogeys.
i'll continue to root for tiger no matter what.
trashpar
New
Never thought that would be a great partnership when he hired him. What do you think Joes deficiencies are Brian?
I can hear Brian already: 88% fairways and 300 yd drive avg, proves Como got rid of Foley tee stuff. But 56% GIR, so Como has not yet exorcised the Foley steep shoulder, flying wedges, handle dragged irons. And, this Open is still just practice. But can't say anything else.
Foley has become the Geo W Bush of the Tiger world and the TGM Flying Wedges are the weapons of mass destruction.
Anything wrong with the TGM Flying Wedges? Don't think so. It's just that Tiger's left arm flying wedge is too obtuse.
The point was whatever the sport, superstars have trouble seeing/accepting their decline, whatever the reason. You guys are dreaming if you think all the new young guns can be dominated by some sort of revtalized Woods.
i can't believe i'm agreeing with ray j but he's right as much as it pains me to say it.
shouldn't even mention the caddie Brian this mess is all tiger.. if you are hitting it on the range good in warm up and come out and hit it fat a bunch of times then it's between the ears.
tiger needs to see somebody that can help him control his nerves better. it's not a fluke that his first hole- in i don't know how many tournaments i lost count- he bogeys.
i'll continue to root for tiger no matter what.
Following him in future tournaments will be a lot easier as the crowds thin out, chasing after the guys at the top of the leaderboard.
tongzilla
New
Tiger Woods is totally, completely, unequivocally, and utterly done
Tiger Woods Is Totally, Completely, Unequivocally, And Utterly Done: The Loop : Golf Digest
ST. ANDREWS -- "Is Tiger Woods done?"
This is a question I have heard several thousand times over the past year and half, from well-meaning and tiresome people alike. Today I am pleased to report that I have a definitive answer:
Yes.
Tiger Woods is done. Tiger Woods is finished. The version of Tiger Woods that is a once-in-a-generation golf talent now belongs entirely to the realm of memory.
Tiger Woods as a mediocre-to-bad professional golfer is the reality of the present, and, most importantly, the future. His performance at the British Open is more evidence that he's done, but in fact he was already done before the week began.
Tiger Woods being done is a metaphysical truth, and as such does not require additional proof. Just as a turtle cannot fly an airplane whether or not you strap him into a cockpit and wave orange pylons at him from a runway, so Tiger Woods is done whether or not you watch him on a golf course, being bad at golf.
There will never be another moment, from now until the sun burns up the earth and our future descendants run around screaming as they burn to ashes, when Tiger Woods will be a good golfer again. Long after our planet is gone, and the black holes consume our universe and existence as we know it is devoured in the expanding void and all meaning is lost to anti-matter, it will still be true that Tiger Woods was never a good golfer after 2013. Assuming time is a linear structure, Tiger Woods has ceased to be capable of golfing excellence, and will forevermore be done.
On the subject of time, the 2015 PGA Championship, which Tiger will not win, will be the last major championship at which the greatest golfer of our time will be less than 40 years old. There are some people who have won majors after their 40th birthday. Tiger Woods will not be one of them, owing to the fact that he's done.
If Tiger Woods finishes 30th at a future event, and leads the field in some esoteric category, it will not mean he's back. If he tells us that some minute swing adjustment has him on the verge of greatness, it will not mean he's back. If he's about to play on some course where he's won before, against players with less experience, it does not mean he's going to win.
There is nothing about his past that gives him a psychological advantage over anybody. He will not tie or exceed Jack Nicklaus' major record. If there is a golfer in the future who wins 15 majors, he will beat Tiger Woods by exactly one major.
Tiger Woods is done.
I would like to point out that there are many golfers who are not done. Jordan Spieth, age 21 and winner of back-to-back majors, is not done. Rickie Fowler is not done. Rory McIlroy is injured, but almost certainly not done. I just watched Hideki Matsuyama make seven birdies in ten holes. Based on that evidence, I'm ready to state that he, too, is not done. There are many others I could list who are young and great and not done, but I won't do that. You can look them up on the Internet.
Tiger Woods, though? Done.
Tiger is done for several reasons that we know and some that we don't. His national humiliation in 2009 probably didn't help, but then again, he wasn't totally done yet—as he is, beyond doubt, today. His injuries have not helped. In fact, he may be in a state of perpetual injury. His age—which, again, will only increase from this point forward, owing to the nature of time—will not help. And there's one more important factor that will also make things hard for him in the future: he's not good at golf anymore.
Someday, we may invent time machines, and then we can travel back to the year 2000. When we arrive there, Tiger Woods will not be done. Perhaps when we die, we'll get a chance to revisit our lives in some capacity, and we'll pass through that brief epoch when Tiger Woods was not done. Maybe we will eventually learn that life is a dream, or a simulation, and that Tiger Woods never truly existed, just as you and I and these words you're reading don't exist. In that case, Tiger will not be done, but nor will he be un-done. But until any of these things happen, Tiger Woods will remain done.
Tiger Woods has donned his last green jacket. He has sipped from his last claret jug. He has done the last things that people do with the U.S. Open and PGA Championship trophies, whatever those things are. He will not do those things again. Instead, he will duff and thin and hook and slice, and he will stare in frustration as better golfers that are not yet done hit shots that he can no longer hit, because he's done.
One day, he will retire, and it will be officially true that he's done. Today it is just metaphorically true, but true nonetheless.
Lastly, if Tiger Woods or anyone else says something different on the topic of him being done, you should understand that they are lying or misinformed. Into perpetuity, forever and ever, Tiger Woods is done.
Tiger Woods.
Is Done.
Done.
Tiger Woods Is Totally, Completely, Unequivocally, And Utterly Done: The Loop : Golf Digest
ST. ANDREWS -- "Is Tiger Woods done?"
This is a question I have heard several thousand times over the past year and half, from well-meaning and tiresome people alike. Today I am pleased to report that I have a definitive answer:
Yes.
Tiger Woods is done. Tiger Woods is finished. The version of Tiger Woods that is a once-in-a-generation golf talent now belongs entirely to the realm of memory.
Tiger Woods as a mediocre-to-bad professional golfer is the reality of the present, and, most importantly, the future. His performance at the British Open is more evidence that he's done, but in fact he was already done before the week began.
Tiger Woods being done is a metaphysical truth, and as such does not require additional proof. Just as a turtle cannot fly an airplane whether or not you strap him into a cockpit and wave orange pylons at him from a runway, so Tiger Woods is done whether or not you watch him on a golf course, being bad at golf.
There will never be another moment, from now until the sun burns up the earth and our future descendants run around screaming as they burn to ashes, when Tiger Woods will be a good golfer again. Long after our planet is gone, and the black holes consume our universe and existence as we know it is devoured in the expanding void and all meaning is lost to anti-matter, it will still be true that Tiger Woods was never a good golfer after 2013. Assuming time is a linear structure, Tiger Woods has ceased to be capable of golfing excellence, and will forevermore be done.
On the subject of time, the 2015 PGA Championship, which Tiger will not win, will be the last major championship at which the greatest golfer of our time will be less than 40 years old. There are some people who have won majors after their 40th birthday. Tiger Woods will not be one of them, owing to the fact that he's done.
If Tiger Woods finishes 30th at a future event, and leads the field in some esoteric category, it will not mean he's back. If he tells us that some minute swing adjustment has him on the verge of greatness, it will not mean he's back. If he's about to play on some course where he's won before, against players with less experience, it does not mean he's going to win.
There is nothing about his past that gives him a psychological advantage over anybody. He will not tie or exceed Jack Nicklaus' major record. If there is a golfer in the future who wins 15 majors, he will beat Tiger Woods by exactly one major.
Tiger Woods is done.
I would like to point out that there are many golfers who are not done. Jordan Spieth, age 21 and winner of back-to-back majors, is not done. Rickie Fowler is not done. Rory McIlroy is injured, but almost certainly not done. I just watched Hideki Matsuyama make seven birdies in ten holes. Based on that evidence, I'm ready to state that he, too, is not done. There are many others I could list who are young and great and not done, but I won't do that. You can look them up on the Internet.
Tiger Woods, though? Done.
Tiger is done for several reasons that we know and some that we don't. His national humiliation in 2009 probably didn't help, but then again, he wasn't totally done yet—as he is, beyond doubt, today. His injuries have not helped. In fact, he may be in a state of perpetual injury. His age—which, again, will only increase from this point forward, owing to the nature of time—will not help. And there's one more important factor that will also make things hard for him in the future: he's not good at golf anymore.
Someday, we may invent time machines, and then we can travel back to the year 2000. When we arrive there, Tiger Woods will not be done. Perhaps when we die, we'll get a chance to revisit our lives in some capacity, and we'll pass through that brief epoch when Tiger Woods was not done. Maybe we will eventually learn that life is a dream, or a simulation, and that Tiger Woods never truly existed, just as you and I and these words you're reading don't exist. In that case, Tiger will not be done, but nor will he be un-done. But until any of these things happen, Tiger Woods will remain done.
Tiger Woods has donned his last green jacket. He has sipped from his last claret jug. He has done the last things that people do with the U.S. Open and PGA Championship trophies, whatever those things are. He will not do those things again. Instead, he will duff and thin and hook and slice, and he will stare in frustration as better golfers that are not yet done hit shots that he can no longer hit, because he's done.
One day, he will retire, and it will be officially true that he's done. Today it is just metaphorically true, but true nonetheless.
Lastly, if Tiger Woods or anyone else says something different on the topic of him being done, you should understand that they are lying or misinformed. Into perpetuity, forever and ever, Tiger Woods is done.
Tiger Woods.
Is Done.
Done.
johnmerrick
New
on sunday at Greensboro tiger hit the fairway 12/14 times -if i remember correctly. said it had been years since he has had control of his ball like he did.
como was quoted as saying he thought tiger had turned the corner on his swing. golf is a game were you can make a couple of small changes and bang you can go from missing cuts to top 10's in weeks.
tiger is not done matter of fact he is far from it. all this Open tells him and como is that there is still work to be done.
he is getting closer- baby steps people... baby steps...
como was quoted as saying he thought tiger had turned the corner on his swing. golf is a game were you can make a couple of small changes and bang you can go from missing cuts to top 10's in weeks.
tiger is not done matter of fact he is far from it. all this Open tells him and como is that there is still work to be done.
he is getting closer- baby steps people... baby steps...
Last edited:
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Here is what I saw today....
Mismatched elements.
Too much pure handle dragging to hit a draw driver.
(BTW: Handle Dragging is too much linear force and not enough angular)
All of this reminds me of a speech I gave in 2005....roughly:
"Ever had a student that you fixed up good and they left you for someone else and that someone else changed one or two little things and became famous? I have.
Try to figure out what that one or two things might be might be and put it in yourself"
(my advice to Chris)
Mismatched elements.
Too much pure handle dragging to hit a draw driver.
(BTW: Handle Dragging is too much linear force and not enough angular)
All of this reminds me of a speech I gave in 2005....roughly:
"Ever had a student that you fixed up good and they left you for someone else and that someone else changed one or two little things and became famous? I have.
Try to figure out what that one or two things might be might be and put it in yourself"
(my advice to Chris)
johnmerrick
New
Brian what would you have to see that would lead you to say tiger should retire?
Again, radius too long for the ball...
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I have said this other places—HE IS NOT RETIRING. He will play until he feels as if he is not physically able.
johnmerrick
New
i know that but that's not my question if you re read it ...doesn't matter anyways no big deal -forget it.
Last edited:
Brian, I think the reason why butch and Haney were successful with tiger is because they focused on tiger not getting stuck. I think the stuff como has done, stand taller, freer arms is great stuff but I don't see them working on making his swing stuck proof so to speak. Butch had arms not suck inside then round off at top and shaft pretty much pointing outside ball so shaft would fall right down in front of him, you can see the shaft pointing outside ball at top of swing in the Bangkok footage back in 2000. Haney wanted the same thing, club to be in a position at top so that it would come down right in front of him, forgetting parallel planes etc this is the reason he could make both work. I just don't see this in what him and como work on. Seems they are working on pivot and collecting that ball through hit.
I watched tiger at memorial and he was so stuck with driver, got to watch him after the round work with como and they didn't even address the getting stuck. Just worked on pivot
I watched tiger at memorial and he was so stuck with driver, got to watch him after the round work with como and they didn't even address the getting stuck. Just worked on pivot
IMO the Tiger story is just becoming interesting. I'm not pompous enough to offer him unsolicited advice. Nobody knows where he'll go from here, but we're all fascinated. Professional golf has a lot of great stories playing out today!
I've heard the Haney privately says that Tiger doesn't follow instruction. I think Brian has alluded to this as well. That is understandable as ultimately it is not the instructor, or the caddy, it's on the player. Pitching comes to mind, any pitcher that blames the catcher for calling the wrong pitch is not destined to last. The Hippocratic Oath most certainly applies to instructors and star pupils.
I've heard the Haney privately says that Tiger doesn't follow instruction. I think Brian has alluded to this as well. That is understandable as ultimately it is not the instructor, or the caddy, it's on the player. Pitching comes to mind, any pitcher that blames the catcher for calling the wrong pitch is not destined to last. The Hippocratic Oath most certainly applies to instructors and star pupils.
Last edited:
johnmerrick
New
what's amazing to me is the people who say "tiger is done"..."he should retire"..."go back to butch...etc etc...you know the brandel chamblee's the hank haney's the nick faldo''s óf the world and of course i can't forget paul azinger with the "...tiger has gone from the artist to the engineer." and how he could fix tiger in five minutes. how many of them have changed their swing successfully? i'm not talking a little i'm talking a total different swing pattern ?how many of them are qualified to say how long a swing change like tiger is trying to do should take ? not one of them.
it takes time to get this stuff right but that doesn't sound as good as brandel saying "...he's been at this for 8 months and look at him he is utterly confused".
if he comes back and wins a major what will they say then? my guess is..."what took you so long tiger?"
it takes time to get this stuff right but that doesn't sound as good as brandel saying "...he's been at this for 8 months and look at him he is utterly confused".
if he comes back and wins a major what will they say then? my guess is..."what took you so long tiger?"
Being stuck (i.e., clubhead being very behind) isn't necessarily a bad thing IMO. Only if when you'll hit it behind the ball (if no compensation is done). So the solution IMO is to, again, adjust the radius (shorten it) so clubhead won't hit it fat (if no comoensation). If this is done, getting the clubhead as stuck as possible is even prefered because that means clubhead is as far away from the ball and, therefore, has more distance to travel and gain speed. No?
- Status