Two Different Pivots (with pictures)

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augolf

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"Why do most golfers move forward through the impact interval, and from release point through the swivel?"

One reason might be because their clubs do not fit. If they have a clue, they try to take a divot after the ball, with clubs that don't fit and move forward in the process.

Along the same lines, golfers might run out of right arm before impact. Their computer will not let them miss the ball. Only option is to get to the ball with the left side.

Also tons of people (thanks to WRONG instruction) believe a good golf swing has an active left arm. Anything but an intert left arm will cause one to move forward through the ball.

Train the flying wedges to be correct. Pick a pivot center.
 
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shootin4par

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Brian Manzella said:
I STRONGLY DISAGREE.

And here is why:

Some golfers have perfect backswings by my preference, or yours, or the middle of the feet head-still-ers, or anyones, BUT STILL MOVE FORWARD THROUGH THE BALL.

So why do you think they do it?
Click to expand...
so, assuming they load up correctly into the rear leg, then I would say they have a faulty ball position or set up allignments
 
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Brian Manzella

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Ok, ok...

Aug and shootin,

These answers are getting better.

But I am looking for what you (and others) think are the root cause or causes for this no center MALADY.

Thanks.
 
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augolf

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For me (I battle the problem in question), I know the root cause is that my brain was loaded with bad info. Bad info on where power in the golf swing came from. Bad info came from a book by a national "top 5 GD instructor". Had pages and pages on the pivot. " Power comes from the pivot" etc. Very little info on Zone 2. If golfers were told the golf club moves through impact by the bending and unbending of the right elbow, would the pivot center move? With all the empasis on "turn, turn" , at the expense of emphasis on the proper working of the flying wedges, I'm certain the pivot center will move. Because we all want power. So incorrect thinking by the brain is the cause. More and More emphasis on Zone 2, and this emphasis will "choke" and kill the brain's incorrect thoughts of the body creating power.
 
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Toolish

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Do you think any of this movement through the ball, rather than turning, comes from how we learn other sports and natural instinct.

Tennis players fall into the court as they serve, pitchers step off the mound as they pitch, javelin throwers run at the target.

All these movements have a pivot type element in them, and all involve a mojor lateral move towards the target, without knowing better maybe some people are incorporating that sort of a move into their golf swing...maybe to them it feels natural, and it feels like they are staying still.

I have seen my swing on video and not beleived it, and seen many other people do the same, perception and reality may be fooling the pivot too?
 
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mb6606

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To Clarify

Brian,
There were several quotes in this thread about power and pic #2 that I was responding to an example below. That is why I posted the Fister link. There is more than one way to do it - the truth can only be found in the results for each individual golfer.

"I do agree with Millrat however - the left looks like precision, the right looks like power. "
 
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Brian Manzella

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Well....

But what is THE CAUSE...

Some golfers have great centers, no lessons, some have lessons with HEAD STILL type advice, and they have a poor center.

Why?

:)
 
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augolf

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Root cause = brain's incorrect thoughts (including fact that our computer will not let us miss the ball)

physical cause = Non-intert left side (specifically non-inert flying wedge)

Interestingly, I think the golf world's HUGE emphasis on pivot and pivot center type of advice indeed causes a non inert left side. I don't like someone to tell me to keep a point still. I'd like someone to tell me to perform a correct movement. What correct movement will lead to an inert left arm?

Replace this misplaced emphasis with emphasis on the hands (flying wedges) (chapters 4 and 5) and goldom wil have better pivot and pivot centers.

Certainly if someone is a spazz with the body, you'd immediately quiet the body. But continued empasis on the body is killing the average golfer.
 
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davel

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My guess is they go forward thinking to hit the ball straight they must they must go straight down the line. In my case its because my rear leg isn't the best.

Dave
 
rwh

rwh

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Either an incorrect axis tilt (upper spine leaning toward the target) or not enough axis tilt.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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mb6606 said:
Anyone that thinks you need Brian's #2 pic to generate power is dead wrong.

View Sean "The Beast" Fister - RFP - Stationary head

Longest Drive 515 yds
Highest Ball Speed 218 mph
Highest Clubhead Speed 171.2 mph

http://www.megspace.com/sports/moetown/videos/fister_side_clip.html
Click to expand...

mrodock said:
head dead center of the feet? I don't think so, would be interested in lines though. I'm curious if other's are seeing what I do. He has a REALLY wide stance though, that changes things a bit.
Click to expand...

Ya that's no "tripod," anyway.

I don't think Brian's ever said anything bad about a stationary head.....just not a CENTERED (between the feet) head. (i.e. "tripod")

He posted those pics of Nicklaus recently....(thread went crazy and is gone now)......same deal.....head back some.....but stationary....."lean left" at the top....(right knee too bent tho, as Brian pointed out)...

...

And besides...even if the head starts more close to the middle.....and moves back a couple inches as a result of turning around the spine....big deal.
 
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Brian Manzella

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Good answers, Bob and George!

But Bob, if you HAVE correct axis tilt, you HAVE a good center.

So....why DON'T most golfer's NOT have axis tilt?

George, you got another of my reasons....

"UNTILTING through impact to "add" power"

Which of course it doesn't.

I am holding my answer for a while.
 
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shootin4par

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cause they dont understand to swing left?
they move towards the ball in an effort to swing right,
also, incorrect weight at address can be a culprit too
 
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Amen Corner

Amen Corner

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Because.........

they simply un-wind their torso on the same axis that they rotated about on the backswing,

This literally “misguided” procedure will create a force that will not be focused on the ball and for most players, cause an ‘over-the-top’, off-plane start to the downswing which can only be saved by an equally off-plane force with the arms in the opposing direction.

Near??
 
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Brian Manzella

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Birdie Man....and Amen Corner....beating me with my own stuff....

;)

Still looking for an explanation.

Look folks, it isn't in any book, not even The Golfing Machine.


The REASON....
 
Amen Corner

Amen Corner

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Nice try....

don´t you think????

Well, what about that this then:

The reason is in their efforts to HIT. After the HIT they stop and therefore do not have a natural follow through.

I try to get my students to focus on to get to the finish position and react like - ooopsss, there was a ball there!! ie get the focus away from the ball=hit.

can´t you give away a little hint?
 
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