When will Tigers patience run out?

[magicmarker]

At the time I suspected that the spotlight wasn't big enough for both of them. I wonder if Hank wanted to do more self promoting than Tiger was comfortable with.

 

[trashpar]

At the time I suspected that the spotlight wasn't big enough for both of them. I wonder if Hank wanted to do more self promoting than Tiger was comfortable with.

Tiger has gotten rid of everyone he felt got "too big for their britches". Haney would've been fired no question.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Tiger "got rid of" Hank.

Sean Foley is a friend of mine, and a very knowledgable teacher. He had a run of success early this year that is near unprecedented in modern golf instruction.

Tiger isn't playing very good as of late, and that puts the heat on Sean.

Trust me, me and Lisa sweat through every shot David hits on ShotLink, especially right after we work a bunch. We spent the whole week together at the Zurich, and there is pressure that comes with how he plays after we do.

So, the question is, WHY? Why is Tiger underperforming right now?

Well, the TrackMan haters are lining up against my little orange pal and his brothers, but if they'd like, I'll post a list of the TrackMan taught golfers on tour right now that will make you rethink any criticism of that technology.

99% of every golfer on Tour uses video one way or another, and you could say the same thing about it—some folsk who use video played like es-aych-eye-tee this week.

Here is your answer:

Sean and Tiger have not found something that Tiger can play well consistently with.

Do I agree on everything they look like they are trying to do? No. I posted the "dots" video as part of what I would hope they would consider. I also think Tiger needs more arm swing. But that is just one man's opinion, and nobody is asking me.

The blog I wrote a year ago plus, said basically I thought Tiger was coming. He has won, and played better at times, so I was at least somewhat correct.

Folks need to know how big a mess Tiger was when he and sean started out together. Hank had left a big ole mess.

The next couple of months will be very telling. I am pulling hard for both of them.

As Sean would say— Peace.

 

[Todd Dugan]

Hank left a mess? Tiger won 6 times in 2009, his last year before switching to Foley. Less than 10 years experience is light to be teaching this era's best player. No doubt, Foley knows more today, but when he began this journey with Tiger, he had only been teaching Tour pros for a few years. I question his education because a few years ago, there was a video of him giving a talk to a group of apprentices. Almost everything out of his mouth was easily disproven by science. It was scary. Again, I'm sure he knows better now.

 

[Keefer]

At the time I suspected that the spotlight wasn't big enough for both of them. I wonder if Hank wanted to do more self promoting than Tiger was comfortable with.

Here's Hank's take on what happened near the end of their relationship. That 'mess' had 6 wins in 2009 and was leading money winner, but no majors. Time will tell how many majors Tiger will win under Foley. I suspect Tiger would love to have the record he had under Haney with Foley. That would put him above Jack. Time will tell how long Tiger waits before switching coaches again.

Tiger's act wore thin with Haney by 2010 - www.record-bee.com

 

[Mike Thomas (sunmart)]

Would love to see the list of Trackman taught golfers.

 

[birly-shirly]

Hank says he walked from Tiger, and to the best of my knowledge, no-one in Tiger's circle has openly disputed that version of events. Anything else is internet conspiracy theories and wish-believe, no?

As for the big mess that Haney left behind - surely that only makes sense if you think that Haney's teaching either caused or exacerbated Tiger's knee issues. Results-wise, since when did a mess become YOUR mess after you leave the building?

 

[Jared Willerson]

I personally never liked Tigers swing under Haney.

It was very interesting to read the comments by Mahan referring to when Tiger first started working with Foley. The comments were something to the effect of Tiger knew less about his own golf swing than any pro he had been around and Tiger was hitting the ball so poorly that Mahan, Foley, etc, were just shocked at what they saw.

So, Todd, those comments, made by a colleague on tour, lead me to side with others who have said that Tigers swing was a mess and had been a mess for a while under Haney.

Tiger won on his putter, short game and course management skills the last year under Haney. He did not win with his golf swing. He won because he knew how to play golf, something he probably needs to get back to a little.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Ultimately, the effects matter. Foley is much worse coach than Haney, that's a fact. At least Haney wasn't that stupid to mess with Woods's short game and putting. According to experts here Woods should have started to play excellent golf 1 year ago FOR SURE. Only I (and maybe someone more) said that Foley's swing concepts suck. Same as Haney's, but, as said, Haney did not destroy key things for Woods.

Cheers

 

[Brian Manzella]

Apparently, folks seem to forget the very end of Hank.

Tiger was popping up 3-woods!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[conkanen]

Sooooo. Tiger wins a bunch with HH because the had the talent, short game to overcome bad instruction?
Sooooo now he is not doing so well with better instruction (i.e. Foley)? What gives?
I have no horse in this race....in fact I think HH is a d-bag but I think there is a sever lack of objectivity
in these posts imo.

 

[MikeD2]

For what it's worth...

A tour pro, who shall remain nameless, but who seems to have taken up semi permanent residency in the world's top ten, remarked to a friend that he thought Tiger was finished. Why? He's miserable. He has no real friendships with any other guys on tour and he doesn't particularly like what he's doing right now.

Personally, I don't believe he's finished. While the absence of a decent relationship, with anyone, can't do anything but hurt your success, the man has too much golf talent not to come back. He will not beat Jack's record but he will win another major and probably one this year.

 

[Virtuoso]

My opinion, but I think trying to nail down the primary "swing center" can be a bit of a wild goose chase....especially when it is combined with trying to increase "ball compression." If so, it seems easy to be too far left in the backswing and end up with less than desirable dynamic loft on the clubs (especially the long ones)....and then there are unintended consequences of that.

I think Brian mentioned it earlier, but if you are going to chase swing center, you'd be better off deciding it was behind the neck than deciding it was in front of the sternum. If you decide sternum, you will start swinging everything around your eyes/head....and the swing will be completely finished as an athletic motion.

PS, I kind of laugh when people get excited that Tiger brought back the stinger. With no dynamic loft, what else have you got? You just end up with a bag full of stingers.

 

[puttmaster]

Not sure about Tiger being finished, at least in terms of what we once expected of him. But, it certainly looks as if he is miserable, without many friends, and is finding very little enjoyment in his current situation. He seems almost totally walled off from the real world.

 

[natep]

Sooooo. Tiger wins a bunch with HH because the had the talent, short game to overcome bad instruction?
Sooooo now he is not doing so well with better instruction (i.e. Foley)? What gives?
I have no horse in this race....in fact I think HH is a d-bag but I think there is a sever lack of objectivity
in these posts imo.

I agree.

 

[magicmarker]

I personally never liked Tigers swing under Haney.

It was very interesting to read the comments by Mahan referring to when Tiger first started working with Foley. The comments were something to the effect of Tiger knew less about his own golf swing than any pro he had been around and Tiger was hitting the ball so poorly that Mahan, Foley, etc, were just shocked at what they saw.

Tiger won on his putter, short game and course management skills the last year under Haney. He did not win with his golf swing. He won because he knew how to play golf, something he probably needs to get back to a little.

I never like Tigers swing under Haney much either, but I did like that he could work the ball both ways with the irons without double-crossing every other one, which was great for when he drove it down the wrong fairway and had to shape shots back to the right green.

He just did whatever it took to win back then, grind, scramble, MAKE PUTTS.

Now it seems like bad shots eat away at him too much. He doesn't seem as determined to play well as he is to swing well. All the questions he gets asked, and all the answers, point to the swing changes, just go play golf. I am not a fan of his current swing at all, he needs to be more free-flowing....or as Brian would say, 'schwing dem' orms!'

 

[Jared Willerson]

Sooooo. Tiger wins a bunch with HH because the had the talent, short game to overcome bad instruction?
Sooooo now he is not doing so well with better instruction (i.e. Foley)? What gives?
I have no horse in this race....in fact I think HH is a d-bag but I think there is a sever lack of objectivity
in these posts imo.

I am trying to be real objective. He played well under Haney, but I do not think it was his golf swing that got it done.

Foley is dealing with a completely different person than Hank. It's not apples to apples. I think that Tiger won a tournament is a huge accomplishment and his ball striking stats are much improved. The thing now is making his misses better.

 

[conkanen]

The stats say he is hitting it closer with the approaches in 2012 vs 2009 especially in the 150 and under range. But they also show that his short game isn't as big as a disaster as some believe ( 34th in Scrambling and 19th Putts Gained). I can't speak for how bad the misses are though.

 

[Brian Manzella]

My opinion, but I think trying to nail down the primary "swing center" can be a bit of a wild goose chase....especially when it is combined with trying to increase "ball compression." If so, it seems easy to be too far left in the backswing and end up with less than desirable dynamic loft on the clubs (especially the long ones)....and then there are unintended consequences of that.

I think Brian mentioned it earlier, but if you are going to chase swing center, you'd be better off deciding it was behind the neck than deciding it was in front of the sternum. If you decide sternum, you will start swinging everything around your eyes/head....and the swing will be completely finished as an athletic motion.

PS, I kind of laugh when people get excited that Tiger brought back the stinger. With no dynamic loft, what else have you got? You just end up with a bag full of stingers.

Hall-of-Fame post.

So good, YOU should be in the Hall as well.

I'm telling you, all of you, if Tiger and Sean go for the back of the neck, and add a TOUCH more arm release, all the other stuff would work.

Is that objective enough for ya?

 

[conkanen]

nope.