When will Tigers patience run out?

[Virtuoso]

Hall-of-Fame post.

So good, YOU should be in the Hall as well.

I'm telling you, all of you, if Tiger and Sean go for the back of the neck, and add a TOUCH more arm release, all the other stuff would work.

Is that objective enough for ya?

Thanks Bmanz.

It seems that if you use more of the back-of-neck reference point, you can actually use both of your legs and both of your arms. The sternum-centric swings seem like they can be nothing but wipe-the-pee-out-of-it with your torso only.

Short, tight and robotic is sometimes presented as more precise....but it's really just short, tight, robotic and nothing more. I think, in reality, a lot of speed, precision, and fluidity has been left on the table.

The BON swing center also brings a lot of historically world class ball strikers into the model. Any model that accounts for ideas already proven is only strengthened by them.

 

[Brian Manzella]

nope.

I respect your opinion.


But....what do you want me to say specifically?

 

[sweetser]

I am trying to be real objective. He played well under Haney, but I do not think it was his golf swing that got it done.

IMO Tiger was a brilliant iron player under Haney, under Harmon he was a better driver but relied more on scrambling and an out of this world short game. Under Foley he looks like an artist trying to incorporate a swing best suited to improving a journeyman.

 

[DCgolf]

All great careers, if the run is long enough, have lulls. From the 1975 PGA to the 1980 US Open, Jack won ONE (1) major of the 17 he played in! A couple near misses I know, but he won one! He was Tigers age at the time. The "who's hot now is the greatest" school of history is nonsense. Let the whole thing play out and when Tiger has reached his late 40s, let's see where he stands. Most major careers are short, I mean really short. Hogan 7 years, Palmer 8 years, Watson 7/8 years, Jones 7 years, Nelson 8/9 years, Trevino 6 years. MOST guys dont stay on top very long and often the candle burns brightest right before it burns out. Jones gone after 1930, Hogan won triple crown and never won another major, Nelson gone after 1946, etc. Other than Jack and Gary Player (in modern times) no great major's player has won their majors over a long stretch (Even Snead's longevity is not excepted-11 years) Let's wait and see. Tiger BTW, 12 years and counting???

 

[StevePratt]

Interesting debate on the primary swing center.

Mike Austin defined it as the center of the 7th cervical vertebrae. This point would be closer to the back of the base of the neck than the sternum, but somewhere in between the two. It would be a spot you could not put your finger on physically.

Brian, your dot presentation covers Tiger's backswing, yes? What are your comments on his downswing head movement? This is where I believe his big trouble starts.

 

[DCgolf]

No matter what you're taught or who is teaching you, if you don't have trust and the confidence to put it play, it matters not even a little bit. Life changes, nothing remains the same. The steely ice man has had a melt down. I personally don't think Anselmo or Harmon or Haney or Foley have a thing to do with it. Tiger suffered his first set back when Earl died, but he played on FOR Earl for a few Years after. The scandal was the next nail in the coffin. He DOUBTS himself for the first time ever. That's a big deal in any sport let alone golf. There ain't a teacher in the world who can help him now until he gets motivated and starts to believe in himself again.

 

[Dariusz J.]

But....what do you want me to say specifically?

That you were wrong in your last year's assumptions about how good the team Foley-Woods is, Brian.

Cheers

 

[James Marshall (Hogan1953)]

Tiger "got rid of" Hank.

Sean Foley is a friend of mine, and a very knowledgable teacher. He had a run of success early this year that is near unprecedented in modern golf instruction.

Tiger isn't playing very good as of late, and that puts the heat on Sean.

Trust me, me and Lisa sweat through every shot David hits on ShotLink, especially right after we work a bunch. We spent the whole week together at the Zurich, and there is pressure that comes with how he plays after we do.

So, the question is, WHY? Why is Tiger underperforming right now?

Well, the TrackMan haters are lining up against my little orange pal and his brothers, but if they'd like, I'll post a list of the TrackMan taught golfers on tour right now that will make you rethink any criticism of that technology.

99% of every golfer on Tour uses video one way or another, and you could say the same thing about it—some folsk who use video played like es-aych-eye-tee this week.

Here is your answer:

Sean and Tiger have not found something that Tiger can play well consistently with.

Do I agree on everything they look like they are trying to do? No. I posted the "dots" video as part of what I would hope they would consider. I also think Tiger needs more arm swing. But that is just one man's opinion, and nobody is asking me.

The blog I wrote a year ago plus, said basically I thought Tiger was coming. He has won, and played better at times, so I was at least somewhat correct.

Folks need to know how big a mess Tiger was when he and sean started out together. Hank had left a big ole mess.

The next couple of months will be very telling. I am pulling hard for both of them.

As Sean would say— Peace.

Brian,

Do you mean more bottom of the grip going past the top?

 

[sweetser]

Short, tight and robotic is sometimes presented as more precise....but it's really just short, tight, robotic and nothing more. I think, in reality, a lot of speed, precision, and fluidity has been left on the table.

At a Skins game a few years ago, Nicklaus was paired with Stephen Ames. Nicklaus was puzzled by Ames' swing, on the tee at a par three he stopped play to ask Ames about it. Nicklaus didn't understand how Ames could swing like a screen door opening and closing with no "set" or "collection move" at the top.

 

[Virtuoso]

At a Skins game a few years ago, Nicklaus was paired with Stephen Ames. Nicklaus was puzzled by Ames' swing, on the tee at a par three he stopped play to ask Ames about it. Nicklaus didn't understand how Ames could swing like a screen door opening and closing with no "set" or "collection move" at the top.

If i saw a guys pitching a baseball by just rotating around his sternum, I'd ask the same thing.

The big question is: where is the primary swing center (or reference point around which angular velocity is being generated--I say reference because there are multiple centers is the golf swing at different times)?

I would bet that if you want to try to locate it for yourself, through your own feel, then pick up a 30lb medicine ball with both hands, stand in your golf posture, and try to fling it down the target line. There is just no way you would try to keep your eyes fixed in space and pivot around your sternum. With that much static weight at the distal end of the system, you would imediately find a more efficient way to use your entire body, arms, legs, torso, etc to fling it.....and it would end up being more powerful and more precise.

So, in summary, to find center, add static weight on the outside. The farther out, and heavier the weight, the more apparant true center will become in real identifiable terms.

 

[magicmarker]

Tiger "got rid of" Hank.

Sean Foley is a friend of mine, and a very knowledgable teacher. He had a run of success early this year that is near unprecedented in modern golf instruction.

The blog I wrote a year ago plus, said basically I thought Tiger was coming. He has won, and played better at times, so I was at least somewhat correct.

Folks need to know how big a mess Tiger was when he and sean started out together. Hank had left a big ole mess.

The next couple of months will be very telling. I am pulling hard for both of them.

As Sean would say— Peace.

It would seem you were right, he has won twice since this thread. Leads the tour in wins and scoring average. Anyone have a bigger favorite to win the open?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

A lot of luck involved with the weather in regards to open; so of course he'll be the fav but may not be as probable of win if he happens to get a bad tee time weather wise.

 

[ParHunter]

A lot of luck involved with the weather in regards to open; so of course he'll be the fav but may not be as probable of win if he happens to get a bad tee time weather wise.

They better bring good rain gear. The last few month were the wettest since records began 100 years ago and it is set to continue until the end of the month at least. So the only question is whether the rain is vertical or horizontal

 

[eric54]

They better bring good rain gear. The last few month were the wettest since records began 100 years ago and it is set to continue until the end of the month at least. So the only question is whether the rain is vertical or horizontal

Yep not gonna get fast and running links golf. Just hope wind blows otherwise scores could be low. Am going thursday and friday and will be first time i see Tiger live. Cant wait.

 

[hp12c]

Yep not gonna get fast and running links golf. Just hope wind blows otherwise scores could be low. Am going thursday and friday and will be first time i see Tiger live. Cant wait.

Are u gonna be able video TW on the range?

 

[eric54]

Are u gonna be able video TW on the range?

Will try but only have my phone to record him so might not be great quality

 

[Mike Richardson]

Will try but only have my phone to record him so might not be great quality

I went to Sandwich last year, they take your phone off you at the gate.

 

[birly-shirly]

yes - no phones, but they're going to let my 2 wee boys in for free. go figure...

 

[ParHunter]

I went to Sandwich last year, they take your phone off you at the gate.

Didn't they change it for this year?

Btw. for the readers from across the pond: Sandwich is the village where Royal St. Georges is, the location of last years Open.

 

[birly-shirly]

No change, I think. It's printed on the tickets - no phones and no cameras on competition days