YIPS!

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Yo Carey...good to have u here.

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Carey...in your opinion....what percentage of people who have "the yips" can be, as you say, rehabilitated?

Can the management process pretty much be the same for everyone?

That depends mostly on a player's commitment (determination, perseverance, persistence and willingness to endure an uneven growth pattern along with something well beyond instant gratification, along with the knowledge factor PI mentioned) to reach that person's best functional level. Where those conditions have been in evidence, I have not seen anyone fail. Style gets into the act, as well, with Drivers being the most unwilling to relinquish "control." (As Toski once put it, "You have to give up control in order to gain control"). Analyzers ultimately do better than the other styles (given the commitment), since they will not try to "mess" with the process. (They do it "right.") There is a wide variety when it comes to Craftsman and Persuaders, who seem to have less encounters with the demon.

But take note, and I think this is what PI may have in mind, there is no golfer alive who has never "yipped" a shot. Somehow, most people seem to have an impression that "yips" is some big deal, when in fact it is an equal opportunity actor in the game. The "killer" comes when the "yip" throws terror into the heart and soul of someone who missed part of the knowledge/skill factors, which is just one more route into excessive anxiety and subsequnt physiological interference. Tyorke is on to it when he says it is both mental and physical.

That said, birdie, I have not found anyone who could not be "rehabbed," though there have been some who didn't make it , for the reasons cited above. And, yes, the managment process is the same for all, since that, in itself, deals with the basic phenomonology of the primary, univeral issue of anxiety management.
 
Spike, thanks, I have had a fine amateur career,sometimes have a putting problem that when it shows it's ugly face I am in for a battle. No need to feel sorry some of my buddies don't. I am going to try and make time to read some of Cary's web site and articles or buy a book if he has one. Cary welcome to Manzella's site . I have said it before I would not have done near as well if it was not for Manzella taking time to answer some(allot) of questions. TIM
 
Spike, thanks, I have had a fine amateur career,sometimes have a putting problem that when it shows it's ugly face I am in for a battle. No need to feel sorry some of my buddies don't. I am going to try and make time to read some of Cary's web site and articles or buy a book if he has one. Cary welcome to Manzella's site . I have said it before I would not have done near as well if it was not for Manzella taking time to answer some(allot) of questions. TIM
I'm pretty sure Spike would agree, but I have nothing but good things to add an echo to your confidence in Brian. If I need to answer any questions for you concerning the clear key process, please let me know. One thing I find is that players (especially the lower handicap ones) need some refined "tweaking" of the process occasionally, to be sure they are getting the most from it. Boils down to "clean" synchronicity.
 
Hey how come ppl seem to get "yips" as they get older??

Is that just a "seems"?
Best I can tell, again from observation, is that older people don't "get" them with age. Everybody has that opportunity. As they get older, they just have less tolerance for the tension and fidgity sypmtoms, corresponding to the way their balance and flexibility tends to deteriorate and "show" as less functional. The ones who show more "yips" symptoms later in life lived with the universal condition earlier, but it just didn't show as much. As with all things, though, there are exceptions to what comes out as generally true.
 
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Bottom line. I will challenge anyone here or any researcher anywhere to show that anxiety is NOT the chief culprit. There may be others, but they will all have to deal with the anxiety issue no matter what kind of isuue (mechanical or otherwise) or how long present, since anxiety is the ONLY CONSTANT in the bunch. Everyone has it. And that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Hi folks, this is my first post and I disagree!.....:D

Anxiety is present, but it is not the chief culprit...it is simply the result of the real cause, which i can only describe as (your brain being in) "mixed-attention-mode."

Mixed attention mode is what happens in your brain when you are given to much to do at one time...

Take putting for example.
Let's look at a few thoughts that can go through your head as you are just about to strike the ball..
1. "Straight back, straight through"
2. "Show the putterface to the hole"
3 "Make sure you hit the right weight"
4. "I hope this is the right line"
5. "Tilt/rock your shoulders"
6. "Don't let the wrists break"
7. "How hard do I hit this"
8 "Hit on the sweet spot"
9 "Keep the face facing the target on the backswing and on the way through"
10. "Make sure you get the ball in the dustbin lid" (lag putts)

And on, and on and on.............................

It's no wonder people get the yips...:eek: :eek: :eek: :confused: :confused: :confused:

The solution is to get rid of mixed attention mode and replace it with A SINGLE THOUGHT (and it is NONE of the above)...

Then the yips become a distant memory...:)
 
I do like what you say here, PM. And I think you nailed it. It isn't as though anxiety doesn't exist: it is a corollary, as is indecision, my word for the root cause.

I won't try to guess what YOUR single thought is... When I am not stupidly doing the very thang you find to be at the root of the problem I am simply putting the ball. Like I simply 'get the remote" or anything else. Or tossing a ball to someone. Just do it. The cup is THERE...so putt the ball there.
 
You have both simply named symptoms of anxiety, which is the root of all emotion and triggers the immune sytem which responds with physiological changes in order to defend the system. Sorry, guys, look it up. Read a little Hans Selye, whose entire medical journey was given to that study and the way it works - causes and effects.

All 10 of your samples, PM, will be found to be the children (offspring) of the parent known as anxiety. Same for PI's indecision. It is possible that you can argue the chicken and egg deal if you want, but it will come to the same end. It is the anxiety that does the number on your system - which is often, for some, followed by the physiological manifestation called the "yips," which in reality is a very poor way to describe the matter. Tommy Armour just named it that because he didn't understand it either. Some people don't get the yips. They throw up. Others get weak in the knees. Some just hit it too long and others too short and occasionally, even a great player will top the ball or actually whiff it. All coming from the mother-ship - anxiety. So "yips" is only a bit more "popular" to discuss than the troublesome and confusing mental activity many encounter. But the root is the same.

So use a clear key and shut out all that "noise and pestilence" long enough to execute each shot. That keeps you in the solid, protected present where anxiety cannot signal the immune system, which then is not required by the non-discriminatory human system to do anything but rest. Hence, no yips and no puke and a few more sound shots made.
 
"Anxiety" is a symptom. Do you say that that alone is the root? Or would you consider that it is a symptom of SOMETHING ELSE? Such as indecision for one. Fear of a miss = caused by KNOWING that you simply don't know something well ENOUGH to carry off the shot or whatever? for another.

I NEVER have fear or anxiety of any kind to a degree that would itself disrupt me: I DO have an occasionally hasty shot where I wasn't composed before I took it for various reasons, often having to do with interference by a ranger or when in a situation where courtesy to others takes precedence over my personal "perfection"....


Indecision is an incomplete preparation for a shot: insufficient consideration of issues: OF COURSE it breeds anxiety. You can't "positive think" your lack of preparation or over-rule its inherent deficiency.

We agree to disagree if you disagree with that.
 

Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
What about those people who have an inate ability to execute when it matters in spite of their current skill level.

This has always been curious to me. My dad has this, he can't play a lick, but when it is crunch time, he always makes a shot or stobs it to 2 feet, IOW, he has the ability to dig deep and make it happen in spite of his lack of skill. I have often been amazed at this ability. Is this the trait that seperates the highly skilled from the champions?

I have no doubt that if my dad had played his whole life, he would be one dangerous player, as it stands he is still dangerous 2-3 times a round.
 
"Anxiety" is a symptom. Do you say that that alone is the root? Or would you consider that it is a symptom of SOMETHING ELSE? Such as indecision for one. Fear of a miss = caused by KNOWING that you simply don't know something well ENOUGH to carry off the shot or whatever? for another.

I NEVER have fear or anxiety of any kind to a degree that would itself disrupt me: I DO have an occasionally hasty shot where I wasn't composed before I took it for various reasons, often having to do with interference by a ranger or when in a situation where courtesy to others takes precedence over my personal "perfection"....


Indecision is an incomplete preparation for a shot: insufficient consideration of issues: OF COURSE it breeds anxiety. You can't "positive think" your lack of preparation or over-rule its inherent deficiency.

We agree to disagree if you disagree with that.
Can't tell if you are viewing anxiety as a symptom, or if you think that's what I said.

Are you looking at anxiety as some stange phenomenon which only affects some people, or can you recognize that it is universally present in all human life?

If you never have "fear" (another symptom of anxiety) to a disruptive degree, then you are unique in this world and your repressive function is working overtime (which means you simply don't see it, as in nonconscious). Of course you proceeded to say that you do encounter disruption occasionally, and that's all I am talking about. The problem is you never know when that will show itself, which might not matter in many things, but will be found very unwelcome in most golfer's games.

As I mentioned, you can argue the chicken and egg deal, and that's fine, but it will come down to the relationship between anxiety and the immune system. Indecision does not signal the immune system until it generates anxiety which is the signal producer.

If we close off the path between anxiety and the immune system for 13/14 seconds, that is enough time to make our shots and play the game with full confidence and fewer "mistakes."

Since anxiety is characterized by things like indecision, uncertainty, fear, feelings coming from anticipation of anything "bad" or negative, why not deal with one basic ingredient rather than a whole bunch of descriptors which the text book all call manifestations of the one lowest common denominator, which is referred to a "anxiety."

Sure, indecision has roots too, springing from lack of knowledge, incomplete skill and habit development, poor self-image, (and more) but even if none of those are present, anxiety will be there if you are unguarded because you are standing on the threshold of the future when you have a club in your hand and a ball on the tee. And anxiety is always in play in the future and the past. A clear key will keep you in the present long enough to take care of business.

Try mapping out a program to "defeat" indecision and you will have a lengthy task on your hands and still ultimately have to deal with anxiety. Then you have to move to uncertainty, etc, so that after while you have your hands full of a bunch of symptoms for which resolution is marginal. Better to set that aside long enough to play. Then go home and study. Find a therapist and get well. Go into rehab. Build your game fully and completely. Meanwhille, I'll be playing and enjoying the game while others sweat and strain, trying to mange a bunch of symptoms.

While we are at it, take into account that the good, bad and ugly all spark anxiety. Anxiety is a neutral force. It makes no judgements about when to act and when not to. It does it's job is complete nondiscriminatory neutrality.

Anxiety is a part of your gatekeeping force, your first line of emotional defense, so it needs understanding and acceptance, not cerebral, wishful rationalization.
 
What about those people who have an inate ability to execute when it matters in spite of their current skill level.

This has always been curious to me. My dad has this, he can't play a lick, but when it is crunch time, he always makes a shot or stobs it to 2 feet, IOW, he has the ability to dig deep and make it happen in spite of his lack of skill. I have often been amazed at this ability. Is this the trait that seperates the highly skilled from the champions?

I have no doubt that if my dad had played his whole life, he would be one dangerous player, as it stands he is still dangerous 2-3 times a round.
That's commendable for your Dad and maybe a guy I knew in Chattanooga 50 years ago that had the appearance of the same kind of ability I think you are referring to. Tiger seems to have something like that going for him, too. If that were a pattern in human experience we would likely be talking about all this is a different way. There are exceptions to every "rule" (or pattern), but unless we can come up with a lot more than a few names, we'll have to settle for paying homage to the exception.

What would be great would be if we could know what their thought patterns are/were immediately before and during execution. The guy I knew came well before I was involved with studies in this regard, so I didn't inquire. Maybe you could find out from your Dad.

Beyond that, there are those whose exposure to life patterns especially in the first three growing stages of life, provided strong support for building self-turst and self -control. Some of them have shown resliance under fire, which is not quite the same as what we are talking about, but appears to have conditioning from those three periods that keeps their anxiety levels very low. But that (the anxiety itself) is not going away. If your immune system and it's alarm mechanism is out of whack you wind up like the bubble baby, with no protection against anything.

Have you known many others with that same capacity, which by the way, is not in the innate bag, but the learned one?

Meanwhile, you Dad is to be congratulated and admired.
 
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So use a clear key and shut out all that "noise and pestilence" long enough to execute each shot. That keeps you in the solid, protected present where anxiety cannot signal the immune system, which then is not required by the non-discriminatory human system to do anything but rest. Hence, no yips and no puke and a few more sound shots made.

Strange, that's what I just said...duh.........
 
Strange, that's what I just said...duh.........
What clear key did you have in mind? I missed that reference. If I go by your post, there is no clear key listed nor any mention of the same, though you point to possible "swing" keys, which are generically different. Swing keys go to manual function. Clear keys go to automatic. The difference is critical.
 
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Swing keys go to manual function. Clear keys go to automatic. The difference is critical.

Give me an example of a "Clear Key"......

And why is the difference critical? In what way? Will it make me a better putter....I doubt it.......

I use a swing key and my putting is good, if fact very good....and I don't ever get the yips and NEVER will.....why? because I have eliminated all the crap that causes them, and it will stay eliminated..
 

Damon Lucas

Super Moderator
Puttmad,

It is terrific that you are a good putter. Can you share some of your insights?

Keygolf is a very highly regarded member of the golf community and is kind enough to share insights that he has gathered over many years.

What are some of your ideas about putting and the psychology behind it that might benefit others not quite as accomplished as yourself?
 
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Puttmad,

It is terrific that you are a good putter. Can you share some of your insights?

Keygolf is a very highly regarded member of the golf community and is kind enough to share insights that he has gathered over many years.

What are some of your ideas about putting and the psychology behind it that might benefit others not quite as accomplished as yourself?

I'm not really having a go at Keygolf (he is one of my links parners after all...:D )

It's just that, for putting anyway, it may not be as "critical" as he states...

I don't bother with the psychology side of it. If you get good at something it takes care of itself...

For the body to act correctly it must first be given the right instruction..
And that instruction must be compatible with how the body would want to perform an action naturally to get the best results....

The problem with modern putting technique, in my opinion, is that it took a wrong turn some time ago, because someone decided on a recommended set of actions which are contrary to the body's natural choice.

Also, this recommended set of actions, which was supposed to cure a problem, simply creates another one, which is why you now see ad infinite "cures" and swing thoughts being recommended.

You see, they have focussed in the wrong place first.
The key to putting is controlling the speed.
Modern technique is mainly about controlling the direction, but it still leaves the speed of the putt to be dealt with by "feel."

Unfortunately, the system breaks down because one half of it destroys the other half, which is why so many people cannot putt consistently to save their lives...

Do this little exercise and you may get an inkling of what I am talking about;
http://www.droprightin.co.uk/evaluation-exercise.html

:)
 

Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
That's commendable for your Dad and maybe a guy I knew in Chattanooga 50 years ago that had the appearance of the same kind of ability I think you are referring to. Tiger seems to have something like that going for him, too. If that were a pattern in human experience we would likely be talking about all this is a different way. There are exceptions to every "rule" (or pattern), but unless we can come up with a lot more than a few names, we'll have to settle for paying homage to the exception.

What would be great would be if we could know what their thought patterns are/were immediately before and during execution. The guy I knew came well before I was involved with studies in this regard, so I didn't inquire. Maybe you could find out from your Dad.

Beyond that, there are those whose exposure to life patterns especially in the first three growing stages of life, provided strong support for building self-turst and self -control. Some of them have shown resliance under fire, which is not quite the same as what we are talking about, but appears to have conditioning from those three periods that keeps their anxiety levels very low. But that (the anxiety itself) is not going away. If your immune system and it's alarm mechanism is out of whack you wind up like the bubble baby, with no protection against anything.

Have you known many others with that same capacity, which by the way, is not in the innate bag, but the learned one?

Meanwhile, you Dad is to be congratulated and admired.

That's odd you mention Chattanooga, that is where I am from. My dad is also a psychologist.
 
Give me an example of a "Clear Key"......

And why is the difference critical? In what way? Will it make me a better putter....I doubt it.......

I use a swing key and my putting is good, if fact very good....and I don't ever get the yips and NEVER will.....why? because I have eliminated all the crap that causes them, and it will stay eliminated..

The critical difference is that swing keys engage the conscious mind, which of course is available to awareness, and to that extent very manageable. Conscious mental activity is found to be about 3% of the mental process that accompanies our actions. As such it is best suited to be the "manager." The other 97% is nonconscious and that's where the action patterns actually originate and are stored, assuming your habits are built.

You can think your way through any golf stroke, of course. That's mostly what we've done for generations. The problems, then are two: One, our minds and bodies do not work at the same speed, so one is vulnerable to mismatches in the timing and rhythm departments, which doesn't mean "something" might happen every time, but it will, often enough to cost strokes, since we have now left the 97% free to do whatever it takes a notion, and it will do just that, witness the number of shots that do not go where we wanted them to.

The second, we will have relegated ourselves to use nothing but skill in execution, which again, may work even most of the time, but we have found that habits work better, lose less strokes, and we can only release them if we think about something other than what we are doing while we do it. Very few people go through their daily activities on manual. (If they do, they are probably is pain most of the time). That means learning to use the conscious mind to manage the nonconscious habit storage for golf so that we can release what we want and not be victimized by systemic choices in default -(whatever the system decides to push our way, depending on the existing pressure).

To eliminate all that potential potpourri, we use clear keys. They give no command, since the command was given by a "swing" thought in pre-shot planning. You indicate one thought, which is excellent, though as you indicate you are subscribing to it, it will leave you at the skill level, which is one step below, and less effective than, the habit level. So put your swing thought to work in pre-shot, and then use a clear key, which will effectively release the habit (or habit set) you have called upon with your swing key. That takes you to the peak level of performance for you, only depending upon how well you have built your habits. And there is a way to use clear keys to help build habits that we may need, from the skills that we own.

So instead of a swing key, try saying something like "Legalized bingo'll keep grandma off the street," or "When the going gets tough the tough turn pro," or just try Ouimet's little caddie's words "Easy peezy lemon squezzy."

Tha's the difference in a nutshell, but you can find a bit more discussion at
http://clearkeygolf.com/Clearkeys.htm

It may not make you a better putter, but it certainly has done so for a great number of players. When you say you have eliminated all the "crap," that may be true for the 3% conscious part of your mind, but it won't cut it for the 97%, and since you can't see that part (unless you are talkng with a mental patient who has delusions and hallucinations, which are visible products of the nonconscious realm that have got loose), it would not be possible to know if we were rid of the nonconscious elements of "crap."

Nobody is required to use a clear key. Golf will always be available at the conscious level; though I've always found players champing at the bit to get better, while the only thing they work on is the stroke (swing). That may help, but it won't go zenith. That takes another step into the mental realm. The "peak" game requires balance between the physical and mental capacities we own.
 
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