YIPS!

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We are breaking the ice, here are some things to think about, can conditions cause the yips. I think mine really started when I first went to a national many years ago!!. I remember the first time I had played on 12-13 stimp metre greens. At the time our greens were 8 , 12-13 was a shock , I felt like I was afraid to hit the putt. I am very lucky so to speak as mine usually only last a short time and then I find ways to temporaily beat them. I must admit I think both of our new instructors are on to something, the less the body has to work to putt and the less we thnk our minds and body's can free up. Here is a lucky thing for me , I usually get mine in the middle of the week and rarely in tournaments, mind you I would have won a national in 05 if I didn't get the hits early, missed a 2 footer on 13 in the semi's and then miss the combacker that would have put me 3up with 5 to play, also it would have been 5 holes in a row won and the guy I was playing was mentally beat until I gave him life . I am making time to read Cary's stuff tonight , TIM

Both you and puttmad point to a couple of issues that do become involved. Puttmad points to the "learned" part, which is really that thing called "waiting for the other shoe to drop." And Tim, you "felt like you were afraid to hit the putt." If you step back and be objective for a moment (both of you) you will see that you have each described a moment of anxiety (sorry to keep using that word, but it is the common denominator). Both situations you describe in your posts are very good examples of the everyday kind of thing that happens to us and they all bottom out in anxiety. That sets the human "guard" system in motion. Most of what we experience in a days time doesn't have the same kind of telling effect that you get with a putter or driver in your hands, but if you stop to consider it you will note experiences that you've had in a day that register on the anxiety scale - including times you were "ticked" off at something or someone, or if you had to wait in traffic when you were in a hurry, or just being in a hurry because you were a litttle late, such as when the boss wants something done "yesterday." We just notice that generic form more with a putter in our hands, but all of those invoke anxiety, which then signals our systems and they go to work without questioning the reason, the cause, or what might be the outcome.

I don't question that this may be a little hard to fathom at first, but that's the way the human system works and I can only report it. I cannot change it, but I can manage it successfully in golf with a clear key.

One PGA profssional, who uses this in his own teaching, has a student who uses clear key in his work as a fireman at NASA Kennedy Space Center and also used it to kick a 40 yard field goal worth 250,000 bucks at the Peach Bowl two years ago. So there are other applications, but all of those relate to solitary activites and primarily where the issue is "acting upon," (inititating the action) not "reacting to" (as in returning a volley in tennis or on a fast break in BB) Pitchers have used it, bowlers, pool players, archers, dart throwers, BB player for foul shots, to name a few others. Those players, however, clearly understood the concept of anxiety and how many forms
it comes in.

That said, no one needs to feel uncomfortable pointing to things that generate anxiety without having noticed that was in fact happening, since, so far as I can tell, that was never on our plate for learning at any point in life until along came the "yips," unless someone had to be treated for an anxiety dysfunction. What we are talking about here is the natural level, the everyday variety, nothing to be looked upon as unusual.

There is no doubt that if we changed something everyday, we might have enough distraction from each change to avoid the effects of anxiety, but that would wear off without another change. Don't know about you, but I don't have the dough to buy a new putter every time I flinch.

The guys running proshops need to put two barrels in - one with drivers and one with putters, and allow anyone coming through to leave their's and take one from the barrel for a $10 exchange fee. They'd make so much money they'd never have to sell another shirt!

Cheers.
 
There is no way that no one is thinking anything of a post like the one above....

Someone needs to respond....this is just gettin goin no?
 
....

I mean ANYONE needs to respond.

Or at least I thought certain people would have wanted to.


TBH although Keygolf is probably spot-on regarding the actual golf swing, I feel that putting has to be dealt with more mechanically, for the simple reason that during putting there are far more variables to deal with...

On the tee there is no thought of the speed of the surface, the gradient, the grain of the grass etc etc...and most shots consist of a full automated swing.. which as you know, doesn't apply to putting..

I am not trying to deal with anxiety when I am on the greens, I am simply trying to hit a small ball along the ground for a few feet, and I know I can use perfectly reliable, consistent mechanical system to do that....I just don't NEED to leave anything to chance..or change that system in any way..
 
I haven't suffered from the yips yet, but if I do, I would probably just line up the putt and not look at the hole until the ball lands in the cup.
 
TBH although Keygolf is probably spot-on regarding the actual golf swing, I feel that putting has to be dealt with more mechanically, for the simple reason that during putting there are far more variables to deal with...

On the tee there is no thought of the speed of the surface, the gradient, the grain of the grass etc etc...and most shots consist of a full automated swing.. which as you know, doesn't apply to putting..

I am not trying to deal with anxiety when I am on the greens, I am simply trying to hit a small ball along the ground for a few feet, and I know I can use perfectly reliable, consistent mechanical system to do that....I just don't NEED to leave anything to chance..or change that system in any way..

Puttmad,

I truly see your point, for sure. Managing anxiety just doesn't seem to be necessary if there is no anxiety....but for some it is.

I've done quite a bit of hiking in the Himalayas along with my wife who suffers from vertigo. I just couldn't believe it when she would literally freeze during certain times when it hit her! I've literally carried her clutching my back to cross some pretty awesome bridges.

Then about 6 years ago we were hiking in China near the Tibetan border. Walking along comfortably we had to turn a corner that was a bit narrow with about a 1000ft drop. Boom! I thought I would shlt myself! Vertigo hit big time. I went down on all fours to avoid being sucked over the cliff. Couldn't believe it...just couldn't!

It was at this time that I truly understood my wife's reactions. I was shocked that it could happen to me. Just trying to negotiate a small area on a big, big hill.:eek:

To this day I can remember the feeling every time I look down from a certain height. Which I find absolutely amazing to me that it is still in there. :mad:

One of the things that really blows me away is how anxiety even plays a role on the golf course, at all. What is there really to be afraid of out there? Especially on the greens!??! Unless you play in the swamps of Florida, I guess. One eye on the putt and one eye on the gator.

I mean what is it about this game that effects the ego sooo much?

I find that, like you i think, that when putting I only need a purpose to achieve my goal of putting the ball into the hole. I putt very well. But by God I've had my moments when I've twitched. and it is mind blowing. I'm lucky though because I just don't take it too personally to where I worry about it.

But if it happens often, like with some, then to me it is nice to know that there is a way to manage that anxiety. I'm happy you and I don't have it.:D

Thanks Puttmad, I like your approach, too.
 
I don't know if it could be said better about heights: if I stand near the VERY SECURE RAILING of a balcony on the 20th floor, I fear being LIFTED RIGHT UP OUT OF MY SHOES AND THROWN OFF. So when I approach the rail I grab the UNDERSIDE of it and pull hard to force my feet into the concrete harder.

It is unexplainable. And I don't even HAVE vertigo.

"Fight or flee!" Not in my control. Yet. Maybe with hypnosis.
 
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Puttmad,

I truly see your point, for sure. Managing anxiety just doesn't seem to be necessary if there is no anxiety....but for some it is.

I've done quite a bit of hiking in the Himalayas along with my wife who suffers from vertigo. I just couldn't believe it when she would literally freeze during certain times when it hit her! I've literally carried her clutching my back to cross some pretty awesome bridges.

Then about 6 years ago we were hiking in China near the Tibetan border. Walking along comfortably we had to turn a corner that was a bit narrow with about a 1000ft drop. Boom! I thought I would shlt myself! Vertigo hit big time. I went down on all fours to avoid being sucked over the cliff. Couldn't believe it...just couldn't!

It was at this time that I truly understood my wife's reactions. I was shocked that it could happen to me. Just trying to negotiate a small area on a big, big hill.:eek:

To this day I can remember the feeling every time I look down from a certain height. Which I find absolutely amazing to me that it is still in there. :mad:

One of the things that really blows me away is how anxiety even plays a role on the golf course, at all. What is there really to be afraid of out there? Especially on the greens!??! Unless you play in the swamps of Florida, I guess. One eye on the putt and one eye on the gator.

I mean what is it about this game that effects the ego sooo much?

I find that, like you i think, that when putting I only need a purpose to achieve my goal of putting the ball into the hole. I putt very well. But by God I've had my moments when I've twitched. and it is mind blowing. I'm lucky though because I just don't take it too personally to where I worry about it.

But if it happens often, like with some, then to me it is nice to know that there is a way to manage that anxiety. I'm happy you and I don't have it.:D

Thanks Puttmad, I like your approach, too.


I do agree with the anxiety thing Spike (I don't like heights much either), I used to get when putting it but I don't any more..:)

With the present method i use to putt there is simply no room for it to appear...

Being too busy to play regularly was probably the root cause of the problem when I did have it. I just had no idea what I was doing on the greens.
It got so bad my playing parners used to laugh out loud after just about every putt, which of course made it even worse on the next putt...
I eventually became determined to find way to create a good putting stroke/system/method etc at home, with the limited time I had.. Fek being laughed at all the time!.....:mad:

(Just a thought. Do people ever get the yips while playing on their own? Perhaps it is a "witness" thing...)

I sincerely believe that for most people, "getting" the yips is the result of initially missing short putts over a period of time..

"With short putts there are three main problems to overcome:
1. Added pressure. This is due to the high pre-shot expectancy, which is always present on short putts. You are so close to the hole you feel you should always make this type of shot. Knowing from past experience that you can miss these putts leads to conflict between expectancy and past experience, hence the pressure. One side of you thinks the putt is makeable and easy, and the other side of you knows you can miss it. Enter the doorway to "Yipland." The pressure involved here can be vastly multiplied in the event that there may be embarrassment generated if you miss in front of witnesses, or even if you are say, playing with a better player whose game intimidates you. I would imagine that more short putts are missed on the 18th green than anywhere else! The first part of the solution then, is to remove the expectation, before and during the actual stroke.
2. There is a definite tendency to try and subconsciously "push" or "steer" the ball towards the hole on shorter putts (Note, I stated "towards the hole," not "towards the target") So on putts with any kind of break, especially where your target line is outside the hole, this tendency will still come into play - and this will turn the blade, and you will miss on the low side of the hole. You are not alone in this. Watch any tournament on TV and you will see this happen over and over again, and these are the best players who have spent hundreds of hours practicing NOT to do it! At snooker or pool this is known a "willing the cue ball," i.e. you know where you want the cue ball to finish after the shot, but unfortunately you "will" it there as you are performing the stroke. This turns the cue slightly in the direction you are "willing" as you hit the cue ball and you impart sidespin or hit the cue ball slightly off line. 100% of the time it ends up with the pot being missed. Always. The solution is not to think about the outcome of the shot. Focus 100% on making a correct swing on your chosen line.
3. More than ever, on short, breaking putts the speed of the putt is paramount. It is here where inches count. This is why you see top players eliminating the break by hitting 4 and 5 feet putts at a speed which, if they missed, would end up with an equally long putt back again. Tiger seems to use his "core putt" length quite often on putts which are far shorter. Darren Clarke and Ernie Els are other players who do this pretty obviously. They understand the difficulty of hitting precise weight on short putts and have found it easier on some putts to eliminate the break and make the putt as straight as possible. Most amateurs don't have the confidence to do this (and a lot of pros too!). And it is only suitable on certain putts. For example you would probably not want to use it on a fast downhill putt or a sidehill putt with a fast downhill section after the hole.
On the other short, breaking putts, speed is absolutely critical, especially if your target line is well outside the hole. If your aim is to hit the ball at say a 5-ft rate, and you actually end up hitting it at a 6-ft rate, you have no chance of making the putt unless you inadvertently pull or push the shot, depending on which way the break is running."
 
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To this day I can remember the feeling every time I look down from a certain height. Which I find absolutely amazing to me that it is still in there. :mad:

I just remembered a picture a friend of mine has on his wall at home..
It was a phot taken probably in the early 1900's of a group of guys sitting on a single steel girder during construction of a skyscraper..
There is about six or seven of them, with their heavy clothes and boots and they are sitting there dangiling their legs over probably a 5-600 ft drop.

The girder is no more than about 15-18 inches wide, nothing behind or at the front or side of them to grab on to, and they are sat there eating their packed lunches!....

Whenever we discuss this photo we always wonder how many of them survived the consruction of that skyscraper....
Makes me feel "anxious" just looking at it.....:eek: :eek:
 
I just remembered a picture a friend of mine has on his wall at home..
It was a phot taken probably in the early 1900's of a group of guys sitting on a single steel girder during construction of a skyscraper..
There is about six or seven of them, with their heavy clothes and boots and they are sitting there dangiling their legs over probably a 5-600 ft drop.

The girder is no more than about 15-18 inches wide, nothing behind or at the front or side of them to grab on to, and they are sat there eating their packed lunches!....

Whenever we discuss this photo we always wonder how many of them survived the consruction of that skyscraper....
Makes me feel "anxious" just looking at it.....:eek: :eek:

Can only imagine...now I gotta get it out of my mind so I can sleep!:D Just a comment on your previous post. It sound to me like you took responsibily for your putting shortcomings. This, imo, is very powerful and something that a lot of golfers do not know how to do.

The difference between being a student or a patient. The student will work it out...the patient asks for the I.V. drip.;)

Sounds to me that you've certainly worked it out.
 
TBH although Keygolf is probably spot-on regarding the actual golf swing, I feel that putting has to be dealt with more mechanically, for the simple reason that during putting there are far more variables to deal with...

Many players see as you are saying it. Two problems remain: 1. even if you have worked hard to build skill and knowledge, which as you suggest, will support suppression of anxiety, it wil not eradicate it. Drive it into repression, maybe, but it remains a "player" in the game, no matter how much you think you may have dismissed it. 2. by staying with the mecahnical approach, you forego making use of any sh ound habits you have built, and keeping yourself at the mnaual level where you not bump into mismatches in thinking and acting (those two do not function in the same time-frames, creating either inner fight or flight as PI mentions).
On the tee there is no thought of the speed of the surface, the gradient, the grain of the grass etc etc...and most shots consist of a full automated swing.. which as you know, doesn't apply to putting..
When properly and effectively applied, your pre-shot planning for your putt will take care of that matter and still leave you free to utilized developed putting habits.
I am not trying to deal with anxiety when I am on the greens, I am simply trying to hit a small ball along the ground for a few feet, and I know I can use perfectly reliable, consistent mechanical system to do that....I just don't NEED to leave anything to chance..or change that system in any way..
No one MUST deal with anxiety if they know how to manage it. You seem to be referring to CONTROLLING it, and that approach will simply magnify it. You may even be able to suppress it most of the time, but sooner or later, it will generate some kind of "miss," if left undefended. However, you do attest to having done enough practicing and playing to make anxiety less apparent in your game, and especially in the three sets of circumstances you list in another post - all of which point directly to the anxiety issue.

BTW, your mention of the photo of high rise steel workers is likely a group of Mohawk Indians from the Iroquois group in unpstate New York. It's too long a story to recount here, but they and some Senecas and Oneidas all became "fearless" by necessity, though some continue to believe that they had a "native endowment" of fearlessness.

I do appreciate what everyone is saying here. In fact, this thread became the initiative for my current newsletter, which you can read if you wish, at
http://doubleconnexion.com/Dec06.htm
 
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No one MUST deal with anxiety if they know how to manage it. You seem to be referring to CONTROLLING it, and that approach will simply magnify it. You may even be able to suppress it most of the time, but sooner or later, it will generate some kind of "miss," if left undefended. However, you do attest to having done enough practicing and playing to make anxiety less apparent in your game, and especially in the three sets of circumstances you list in another post - all of which point directly to the anxiety issue.
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It's obvious we are never going to agree on this KG...

Anxiety is not a problem for me and never will be, not when putting anyway...
I don't try and "control" it because it doesn't exist... I only used to get anxious because people started laughing at me (because I didn't play enough)....

As they no longer laugh at me, I have nothing to be anxious about..period. And I've had nothing to worry about for the last 10 years since I developed my "system."

Please don't inflict me with negative suggestionsts of, "that approach will simply magnify it" and "You may even be able to suppress it most of the time, but sooner or later, it will generate some kind of "miss," if left undefended."..:eek:

I am surprised at you KG...
 
It's obvious we are never going to agree on this KG...

Anxiety is not a problem for me and never will be, not when putting anyway...
I don't try and "control" it because it doesn't exist... I only used to get anxious because people started laughing at me (because I didn't play enough)....

As they no longer laugh at me, I have nothing to be anxious about..period. And I've had nothing to worry about for the last 10 years since I developed my "system."

Please don't inflict me with negative suggestionsts of, "that approach will simply magnify it" and "You may even be able to suppress it most of the time, but sooner or later, it will generate some kind of "miss," if left undefended."..:eek:

I am surprised at you KG...
I suppose, then, I must apologize in behalf of the creator of the human system, since I have no wish to upset anyone with reality. You may want to take your surprise to a "higher court," however. I didn't make the rule. As you describe it, the entire thing would have to be on the voluntary list. If you can make a case for that, I will listen. All the research and the authorities on the subject have continued for many years to indicate that it is involuntary, which means we have about as much chance of getting rid of it as we have of getting rid of our heart beat, at least so long as life goes on.

If you are as well fortified as you indicate, then why be concerned about anything that is "inflicted" upon you. If you are able to fully suppress anxiety, you are one in several billion. "There is nothing to fear but fear itself."
And in the state you are claiming, you then have nothing to fear at all.
Congratulations.

I am flattered that you are willing to give me credit for having thought that up all by myself, but I think the nobel prize may already be out on that one.
 
It's clear there is some key to the mystery here.

I for one cannot eliminate my anxieties: I do seek simply to focus on what I am doing, and it seems to distract me. But I have not put anxiety to any tests like serious competition in golf: it nearly did me in when I played in paino recitals, however. I'd likely fall face down and splash on the green in a tough situation on the golf course.
 
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I suppose, then, I must apologize in behalf of the creator of the human system, since I have no wish to upset anyone with reality. You may want to take your surprise to a "higher court," however. I didn't make the rule. As you describe it, the entire thing would have to be on the voluntary list. If you can make a case for that, I will listen. All the research and the authorities on the subject have continued for many years to indicate that it is involuntary, which means we have about as much chance of getting rid of it as we have of getting rid of our heart beat, at least so long as life goes on.

If you are as well fortified as you indicate, then why be concerned about anything that is "inflicted" upon you. If you are able to fully suppress anxiety, you are one in several billion. "There is nothing to fear but fear itself."
And in the state you are claiming, you then have nothing to fear at all.
Congratulations.

I am flattered that you are willing to give me credit for having thought that up all by myself, but I think the nobel prize may already be out on that one.

To be continued.........:)

Manyana..
 
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As you describe it, the entire thing would have to be on the voluntary list. If you can make a case for that, I will listen. All the research and the authorities on the subject have continued for many years to indicate that it is involuntary, which means we have about as much chance of getting rid of it as we have of getting rid of our heart beat, at least so long as life goes on.

I don’t deny that it is involuntary KG… I never said it wasn’t..
But have they taken the picture far enough and examined HOW it came into play in the first place and how to deal with it?…

We’re starting to talk in circles here..

The fact that you say that the anxiety is always in us means nothing to me…

Also, the fact that the Yips have been “proved” to be involuntary is irrelevant..
I am not interested in the result, I am interested in the cause. Not the cause of the involuntary action, but more the actual situation/scenario etc that activated the cause of the involuntary action in the first place.

If I suddenly reach over and burn the back of your hand with a cigarette, every time I then reach towards you with a cigarette in my hand, you will flinch (involuntarily)..
If I then put the cigarette out, I have removed the cause and you will no longer flinch when I move my “cigaretteless” hand towards you.

Identify and remove the cause and you remove the problem…it’s that simple. Why must people always over-complicate things? (perhaps there's money in it?....:) )

I am a bit sad that you feel the need to try and instil a type of fear into people i.e. “which means we have about as much chance of getting rid of it as we have of getting rid of our heart beat,..", so you can then “offer” a solution to allay the fear you have just created…and, if I read correctly, you are also saying that yours is more or less the only way to defeat it…….mmmmmmmmm?….

If you are as well fortified as you indicate, then why be concerned about anything that is "inflicted" upon you. If you are able to fully suppress anxiety, you are one in several billion. "There is nothing to fear but fear itself."
And in the state you are claiming, you then have nothing to fear at all.
Congratulations.

Oh dear, that’s a cheap shot KG. I never said I don’t get anxiety in my life, I simply said I don’t get it when putting, and neither you, God, the Queen of England, the Pope, or even Tiger himself, can tell me that I do…… it’s embarrassing that you would even try and pull that one…
 
Ooh this is gettin bitter...

Interesting tho.

Root cause....

and neither you, God, the Queen of England, the Pope, or even Tiger himself, can tell me that I do

I REALLY hope you were joking when u put Tiger last...
 
I don’t deny that it is involuntary KG… I never said it wasn’t..
But have they taken the picture far enough and examined HOW it came into play in the first place and how to deal with it?…

We’re starting to talk in circles here..

The fact that you say that the anxiety is always in us means nothing to me…

Also, the fact that the Yips have been “proved” to be involuntary is irrelevant..
I am not interested in the result, I am interested in the cause. Not the cause of the involuntary action, but more the actual situation/scenario etc that activated the cause of the involuntary action in the first place.

If I suddenly reach over and burn the back of your hand with a cigarette, every time I then reach towards you with a cigarette in my hand, you will flinch (involuntarily)..
If I then put the cigarette out, I have removed the cause and you will no longer flinch when I move my “cigaretteless” hand towards you.

Identify and remove the cause and you remove the problem…it’s that simple. Why must people always over-complicate things? (perhaps there's money in it?....:) )

I am a bit sad that you feel the need to try and instil a type of fear into people i.e. “which means we have about as much chance of getting rid of it as we have of getting rid of our heart beat,..", so you can then “offer” a solution to allay the fear you have just created…and, if I read correctly, you are also saying that yours is more or less the only way to defeat it…….mmmmmmmmm?….



Oh dear, that’s a cheap shot KG. I never said I don’t get anxiety in my life, I simply said I don’t get it when putting, and neither you, God, the Queen of England, the Pope, or even Tiger himself, can tell me that I do…… it’s embarrassing that you would even try and pull that one…
Sorry. Now I see that you really aren't understanding (or hearing) what I am saying and you have concluded things I have not said or implied, so I'll leave you with your own interpretations and repeat my congratulations.
 
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Sorry. Now I see that you really aren't understanding (or hearing) what I am saying and you have concluded things I have not said or implied, so I'll leave you with your own interpretations and repeat my congratulations.

KG, I have an IQ of 155, so hopefully, I have enough basic intelligence to understand a relatively simple concept. Perhaps if I am not understanding it, you have not explained it properly ("if the student doesn't learn, the teacher hasn't taught etc...")..
 
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